To Loot a Country
Arrlo
Government finances are one of those interesting aspects of the game which have evolved over time to an accepted, hybrid system of ingame mechanics and player-created initiatives. Typically, “national orgs” function as a country’s treasury, to which a nation’s congress votes to allocate funds. Using an org makes the distribution of a country’s tax revenue much more simple, and access to these orgs is a sign of utmost trust in an individual. The country president and a chosen Minister of Finance are usually the people who can move these funds around, and for most people this access is a privilege earned by months of diligent work. Some people in the game have handled tens of thousands of gold, and millions of currency without incident. Others are less scrupulous.
At this point we've seen several countries looted of their assets. You may even have thought it was funny when a thieving scumbag stole from an enemy community, but we all know how angry we would be if the same situation happened to us. In these days of restricted donations a small country’s treasury has perhaps less impact on the battlefield, but using the treasury to buy and distribute weapons and foods can still change the result of battles. Smaller countries can spend months, even years preparing a war chest to defend their territories with against much bigger foes.
This has recently happened to Germany. A country of medium size which has spent much of the past few months totally wiped, it will have taken years for each and every taxpaying German player to contribute to the approximately 2000 gold and 1.7 million DEM which the shameless piece of sh*t former president has taken. When I first heard about it, I thought there would be no trouble in recovering these funds since the mindless cretin has released an article bragging about his treachery. Not the case. Presidents are apparently totally protected from any negative repercussions from the actions they take with the country’s assets. To a point, I understand this logic. They have a popular mandate to lead the country, which includes disposing of the country’s funds. However, in clear cases of theft, when a lowlife abuses the trust his electorate has put in him and, in a despicable act of thieving (yes, even in a game), takes the country's entire treasury, I think it's lazy and weak on the part of the admins/mods to choose not to interfere.
This was an obvious example of abuse of your system, with a confession from the worthless criminal himself. BAN players who steal from their country’s treasury. At the very least, restore every last penny to the country’s accounts until the national org is secured again, and make it clear that this action will be enforced in each and every incident of this nature.
Without inviting rants against the admin and mod team who generally do a good job, I'd like to hear other people's opinions on this topic in the comments.
Thanks for reading,
-Thatcher
Comments
IMPERIUM
je vais y traduire pour voir se que ca rencontre 😛
v
the admins stopped giving cr*ps about thefts ages ago, in their eyes that's a bunch of people who will have to buy gold if they want to fight now :/
I fully agree. The Admins should consider this a matter of making the game fair for smaller countries, which, being easier to PTO, are also easier to rob in this manner. Ban the offenders, and return the funds to Germany, or any other nation that suffers such a fate.
Agreed.
v+s
i totally agree with you. a ban could be the first action from the admins.
a good solution would be a donationsystem for national orgs where two users have to give a "YES" before the donation starts.
V+S
I tired to fight with the admins to change the rules.
They want to believe that theft problem solved with the 10 g
have proposed radical solutions, it can no longer get money from the country but only to give orders to units fighting each fulfilling its mission and receive a fixed amount of money the president.
o7
v+s
Hmm nice article, sad story.
@topic: I think maybe the admins think, that there will be more difficult cases, where the involved persons are not that clear etc. And therefore they may not be involved in any of that stuff.
Admin should do something, seriously. What a shithead.
He didn't steal anything. That's just his wage. That's how they do it in jermany.
I agree wholeheartedly that action must be taken, and I think Martin Stettler has a great idea. Something like a two person approval for transferring funds is a great idea. It doesn't entirely get rid of the possibility of theft because both the President and the Minister of Finance could be corrupt theoretically, but it would prevent instances of a single rogue President stealing all of the money.
This happens in RL too, and the theft is not always discovered. This is supposed to be a RL simulator, so this should be possible, at least in theory. Practically, I totally agree, this kind of actions should not be allowed anywhere.
Here is a statement of Otto von Holunder (in german).http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/zeitschrift-f-uuml-r-politikwissenschaft-statement-otto-von-holunder-1942141/1/20
short translation: he thinks he is a genius.
Dear Admins, pls do something against these kind of players!
*Support*
well in rl they sould go to jail .. here`s no exception.
Totally agreed with the article.
Thatcher ♥
Full support!
v+s
I disagree. People who steal through hacking, phising and so should be baned. If someone gets to be elected is because the people voted him, so if he steals is just because the people trusted him when they shouldn't.
If you flandersize the game and protect the people against the possible consequences of their voting you'll just encourage them to vote irresponsibily like they use to.
Moreover, this things, even when the one who has done that will surely be an idiot, bring interest to the game and writte some more lines in the history of the countries which nowadays is basically formed by countless insustancial wars. And that's mainly because of flandersification and simplification of the game
What Outsmarter said.
support
v+s
In eRussia we used to have Treasurers - two at a time trustworthy members of the community, oldfags, usually deanonimised irl, managing the national funds. Relying on a new person each 30 days, whose legitimacy is often compromised by bot mastering or "95% rule" is never gonna end well. But thanks to neverending wisdom of admins, CPs can gain access to every state org via ticket, so there is no way to avoid being exploited by some scumbag from time to time. I guess the only viable way is to keep gold and not to stockpile more than a monthly budget on state orgs.
Outsmarter, I thought the political module is trying to represent a democracy, not a Saudi Arabia. The fact CP is elected the head of the state shouldn't give him an authority to control all the finances of a given country. Moreover in his current role CP is just a speaking head, he has no vital buttons left and is mostly just an English Queen type of a leader.
Thanks for your words, Margaret.
I hope the admins will read your article...
Best regards
The Minister of Economy and Finance of eGermany
voted!
@mogaba. The political module represents what you want it to be. Anyway, passwords of national organizations (and so, the moneys) are given to the elected CP almost worlwide. People have chosen to do so and have also chosen to elect that idiot as a CP. There comes the consequences.
What I'm trying to say is that electing your CP shouldn't be just like picking up what you're going to wear today. If you delete all consequences of a bad choice (As admins have started to do, tell me who really cares of his country being erased when he can move his companies to another country in seconds) people just won't give a f*ck about who are they voting.
And without consequences, there's also no game.
Plus, should admins also ban PTOers or "spies" like shoot, when he toke over Germany and gave it to it's homeland Sweden? Because I really think that's simply another way of playing which adds interest to the game. Where's the line between those who should be baned and those who not?
Forgot to say that I feel sad for germans. My sympathies from Spain.
Thatch, you know i love you more than mincemeat pie and haggis on a cold sunday afternoon in november, but really, you're sounding like a noob here...
both of us, and many more here, are old enough to remember that admin used to care about such things, and often took the greatest pity on a country who found themselves in this type of predicament. however, as often is the case, the need/desire for profit began to outweigh the desire to maintain an open and cooperative relationship with the player base.
on the one hand, you can't blame them, all's fair in love and politics (not really, but you know what i mean), but on the other, it diminishes the value of what brought us all here for in the beginning, and leaves us lamenting for the game... no, the complex and stimulating simulation... we became addicted to.
it is sad that it has come to this, truly. but at the end of the day, you know what will and won't happen, and that's just the way it is...
Permaban the thiefs!
Sure you syphoned off trillions whilst MoF of the eUK, AMIRITE THATCHY OLE CHAP?
OutSmarter no, that is lazy logic. If someone elected takes everything of the country he is elected by, that is not political cleverness or an interesting twist in the game; it is shameless greed, and robs an entire community of the money it has spent God-only-knows-how-long collecting. It's a totally different matter to leading the country badly, or attacking this or that wrong region, or any manner of political skullduggery. It's stealing, plain and simple, except unlike the real world, the normal players have no way to arrest or to try the criminal. There are no "checks and balances".
Re your example: If shoot had pocketed money from Germany and the decision had been mine then yes, I would have banned him. Not a doubt in my mind. And a simple precedent like that would go a long way to stop these pathetic theives, IMO.
Sitting back and saying it's Germany's fault, they chose this guy so they deserve anything he does, is pretty messed up.
Agreed.
Agreed.
Admins follow RL rules, nothing more $$$
Did you see any political big thief IRL get banned from his community ? Usually no, because he can buy good lawyers. Admins are the lawyers of the game.
Sad indeed.
M.H.T. i totally agree with you. In RL we do have such institutions like government and the CP does not have any access to state finance. CP should work to bring politics and warfare of a country "using" a budget, not more. As mogaba and you said, there are ppl who are trustworthy but as you see some small players or scumbags are still trying to steal money from national orgs.. I think admins should change the rule of letting the cp ONLY make the possibility of changing passwords to these orgs. At least there should be two men, lets say the CP plus an official elected chief of congress and only these two men can do such tickets. Its like the right to fire a nuclear weapon.
Thefts are totally useless and disfuncional for this game. They will never buy gold so the admins have no benefits from them. Furthermore they ruin the community and their own reputation.
No reasons to keep these people in this game.
Margaret,
I believe even as greedy this act may be, is part of the game, and if can be happen then "for me" is welcomed. Is a part of the strategy aspect of the game, if it can happen/attempted such a move I consider it as "welcomed". Even if it sounds lame and offending as a move/act. I can get your point though!
Voted even, because I like people who they trying to share thoughts and care for the community for a more "fair play" among us even if this finds me against.😉
o7
Thank you, was nice to read.
I hate cheaters and thieves
If it's president's acc and org is hacked and someone stole all assets that need to return to country
But if is elected president thief, that isn't against rules in this game and I think that citizen of that country are guilty because they elected thief for a president and they are involved in this "crime"
That's just my opinion
x2
"shameless piece of sh*t "
agreed
Some comments are missing the point, witch is: the admins just dont do NOTHING if the theft is a President, cause they just he was elected, so being honest or not, is his right as elected. If the thef was anyone BUT the President.. the money would be recovered.
Well, we the spaniards suffered Ramso (You might remember it well, cuz you've taken profit of that, what an irony) and I've never cried for admins to ban him.
I'm not totally against giving the money back, but bans are supposed to be for people breaking eRep laws (which simply try to protect the game against *cof* unfairness *cof* and *cof* flaming *cof😉. If you start banning CPs which turn into thieves people will start sending tickets to ban that guy who PTOed my 5 members party and, hey, they'd even have a point.
"breaking eRep laws (which simply try to protect the game against *cof* unfairness *cof*"
Pardon?
I said *cof*