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The Economist ~ Artificial alliances - a rebuttal

Day 2,011, 10:02 by Iain Keers



Dear friends,


I’m writing a very short note today in rebuttal to an article by Strumjanin, an old player and CoT supporter. In this article he makes a number of large mistakes about the nature of TWO and the relationships TWO have with former EDEN countries, including Romania, which are MPP’d with them.


Now I’d like to first of all say that nobody thinks that there are no problems within TWO, or that the road to any sort of union between TWO and former EDEN countries will not be rocky, fraught with problems and could potentially still end in failure. It was by far the most difficult path available to both sides, and the only thing that I could say acted in its favour was that it was the most audacious, ballsy and therefore attractive option to all sides. Ask me a year ago if I expected to see Romanian soldiers fighting hard for Slovenia and I’d have laughed, but today it not only happened, they helped carry an important battle for TWO.


Firstly in his article Strumjanin claims “there is no Greece without Turkey”. This is a flawed idea. Greece and Turkey get on well, and will no doubt continue to do so in future. This isn’t because of RL (quite the opposite) but because of relationships forged in the game. It supports my theory that old enemies are often 90% of the way towards being friends. The way he portrays it, if Greece joins the TWO side they’re abandoning Turkey (who would struggle to get TWO membership). This is flawed reasoning, since TWO has absolutely no reason to come into conflict with Turkey, who operate in a different sphere to all our members and whose ambitions are hemmed by CoT not TWO.





Secondly he makes an argument that Hungary is forced to ally with Romania against their will. That’s simply not going to happen, but what makes it even more hilarious is that this argument immediately follows the “Greece is Turkey’s BFF” argument. Surely if two enemies with so much RL history as Greece and Turkey can make up, there’s a good chance for Romania and Hungary to settle some of their differences round the table in future? But since it’s poor quality propaganda, he obviously didn’t think it was a problem that the second half of his article was directly undone by the argument he made in the first half. Btw Strumjanin, Poland and Romania- not such great friends right now. Working on that, but still I doubt Poland will be trying forcing the Huns to MPP Romania.


Now finally the title of the article was “artificial alliance”, which actually is a topic not really touched on throughout the few hundred words of near-gibberish he managed to produce. The truth is that... eRepublik is a game on a website. How can anything be more artificial than that? When I was young people used to talk about “natural” allies, and what they mean were “RL allies”. That’s stupid. Later people talked about ONE as an “artificial alliance” because Serbia/Poland had fought as rival monsters for so long. That argument is pretty much dead now, since both countries are closer than ever.


The idea that countries can’t fix RL problems or ingame problems is also undone by the largest artificial alliance of all - CoT. Bulgaria left EDEN but wasn’t welcome in ONE, so what did they do? Tried to form a new alliance. At the time the only major power not on somebodies score sheet was the newly emerging Chile, who signed up to CoT when it was basically just what ACT is now- a satellite alliance to TWO. Most of their MPPs were ONE, and Bulgaria asked them to join what was essentially a little two man pact. Later on MKD fought with PL and the result was that MKD clearly wasn’t welcome at the top table when TWO formed- and instead were encouraged into CoT. “Send them to CoT” was basically the argument for what to do with countries with an interest in supporting ONE but were too small to be members. So yeh- sit on that artificiality and smoke it.


Finally, when MKD joined the game they were close to the Serbs and wanted into Phoenix (as it was at the time). Bulgaria left PHX over this issue, and as a game mod at the time I can tell you that the storm of racist abuse between BG and MKD players has never been matched since. It was utterly horrible- I won’t repeat the things said but a lot of the players currently cosying up together in CoT said them. And it wasn’t stuff like “TWO SUXOR” or whatever we get thrown at us, it was deeply personal, racist and insulting. So if you want to talk about unlikely friendships, look closer to home.


Also USA


Take care,


Iain


 

Comments

GregoryG
GregoryG Day 2,011, 10:12

As for not giving a f about RL issues : SerHun

I n f o r m e r
I n f o r m e r Day 2,011, 10:12

People should just stop calling Macedonia, FYROM.
If you have problem with them, just fight them harder, wipe them from the map, but stfu and stop calling them FYROM. ITS CHILDISH.

Ashkoort
Ashkoort Day 2,011, 10:21

It's childish to believe you're ancestor of Greek tribe while openly saying you're one of the Slavic nations.

I n f o r m e r
I n f o r m e r Day 2,011, 10:25

Believe it or not, I don't give a f about history. and all the countries are just the same in my point of view.
I just think calling them what they hate to be called, is WEAKNESS. and ofc childish.

Ashkoort
Ashkoort Day 2,011, 10:40

Belive it or not, it's not about the name. It's about how they're trying to steal rich Greek culture...I call them Macedonians in game and in RL, but their country will be FYROM to me as long as they're doing that $hit.
You should care for history, because those who forget past are doomed and have no future.

I n f o r m e r
I n f o r m e r Day 2,011, 10:48

>because those who forget past are doomed and have no future.
Those who forget their own past, yes. but not 2k years ago bullshts.

Aidan Daho Day 2,011, 11:39

Comment deleted

Kheshig
Kheshig Day 2,013, 05:54

iLead you call ancient greek history bullshit? Go shoot yourself. Now.

Lucian Law
Lucian Law Day 2,011, 10:53

Its the name on the map and that is internationally accepted. Why should we care about what they like ? And calling them FYROM isn't childish. Repeatedly saying it loudly would be. So FYROM FYROM FYROM

I n f o r m e r
I n f o r m e r Day 2,011, 10:57

Sir. You will most likely die alone behind your computer while holding your cat. Respect.

Mare Magare
Mare Magare Day 2,011, 11:04

Your historical ignorance makes you incompetent to comment over the issue, as it is mostly historical problem. And 2k years ago was once a today, and today was a future which course was decided on that day.

I call them Macedonia from a habit made while we had lived in same country (former Yugoslavia) when that questioned was ignored, but historically that name is very doubtful and, as a person familiar with history, I find it unsuitable.

You are right for one thing, most people call them FYRoM just to freak them out, not even knowing what it means, and I condemn that.

I n f o r m e r
I n f o r m e r Day 2,011, 11:13

That's exactly what I meant, people calling them FYROM to make them angry, so what? Cant you beat them in-game ?
And yes that's 99% the reason they call them FYROM.

Ashkoort
Ashkoort Day 2,011, 11:11

ILead
Tomorrow is connected with today, today is connected with the day before and so on. Past isn't one just couple of days or years or decades, past is a system of days, weeks, years, decades and they're all connected and making a continuum. If you don't respect your past from 2k years ago, what differece does it make if you respect one from 2 years ago?

Future is built on today's actions, today is built on continuous past. Onecan't go without others.

I n f o r m e r
I n f o r m e r Day 2,011, 11:26

History class, 101.

Bucephalus92
Bucephalus92 Day 2,011, 11:16

I think calling them FYROM with the intention of trolling them is childish, but you DO have to call them something. If you call them FYROM then they yell at you, if you call them Macedonians then the Greeks yell at you, kind of a lose lose situation.

Mare Magare
Mare Magare Day 2,011, 11:23

Exactly. And thinking about to whom you're talking to in order to decide how you should name them is non of my style... No solution on sight so far.

cc1432
cc1432 Day 2,011, 19:19

indeed wanted to point the same thing : ))

Paul T. Craciunescu
Paul T. Craciunescu Day 2,011, 11:35

Why is it childish to call a country by its official name? lol

elbandido
elbandido Day 2,011, 10:12

true \o/

NueveOcho
NueveOcho Day 2,011, 10:14

Pirinç

Talon Karrde
Talon Karrde Day 2,011, 10:16

Voted, excellent and accurate rebuttal

Mr Woldy
Mr Woldy Day 2,011, 10:19

Hahaha

Ashkoort
Ashkoort Day 2,011, 10:19

Hihi

Wildrunner
Wildrunner Day 2,011, 10:32

Sorry but what a lot of bullshit here:

First Bulgaria never had intentions to join ONE, so saying "Bulgaria wasn't welcomed into ONE" is funny because like I already said Bulgaria never wanted to go there in the first place. Not to mention that at that time ONE was a dying alliance. When Bulgaria left EDEN it clearly announced what it would do, and because I don't just talk things out of my a$$ like some people here it is:

http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/bulgaria-leaves-eden-official-international-version-1991378/1/20

"Bulgaria declares neutrality and officially starts making steps towards founding a new alliance, where the democratic values will be upheld most highly."

Second thing: When CoT was finally officially formed and started developing there wasn't even ONE at the scene because it fell appart and you and Spoland were hugging and kissing with the same USA you "hate" so much now. TWO was formed later than that.

So get your facts stright first, then write articles.

Wildrunner
Wildrunner Day 2,011, 10:44

As for our alliance with Macedonia it's not only not artificial but it's perhaps the most natural aliance. Our fights based on RL are more a result of some really unfortunate events than anything else.

Mare Magare
Mare Magare Day 2,011, 11:18

It's not a matter of fortune. When Macedonia was added, you decided to use a chance for babyboom with a light-motive of nationalist claims that Macedonia is SW-Bulgaria.
When you got your babyboom (and Macedonia as an enemy), you decided to settle that fight, and I haven't heard "Macedonia is Bulgaria" every since.
Doublethought?

Iain Keers
Iain Keers Day 2,011, 10:50

Keep on believing that bro, keep on believing

Wildrunner
Wildrunner Day 2,011, 10:53

It's not about faith, bro it's all about facts.

clawy
clawy Day 2,011, 10:33

The big problem for Hungary is not Romania in ThreEden, but Ukraine. This is where Hungary gets it's resources from, this is the only realistic direction it can go for resources without a 3-4 region bridge.
Similar for Romania, if both Ukraine and Turkey enter the alliance with them, they are stuck fighting Bulgaria forever.

The admins were clever (one of the rare occasions) to introduce the concept of road to the capital. This way they guaranteed that mega alliances like this can not exist, as somebody will always draw the shorter straw inside the alliance.

Iain Keers
Iain Keers Day 2,011, 10:51

Ukraine won't be in TWO lol, you don't need to worry about that...

cc1432
cc1432 Day 2,011, 19:26

he was saying that both Romania and Hungary if they were in two would cannibalize each other over Ukraine. because for Romania going south isnt an option while Bulgaria has guys like coder and failsino who can pop up 1kkk per day if they want. as soon as two support would be focused somewhere else... Romania would loose Bulgarian regions. Best case scenario Hungary lends some double resource regions from Ukraine so that Romania may have a shot in Rusia.

Ion Vlahu
Ion Vlahu Day 2,011, 13:32

clawy, i love you like a brother.

Daan Rares
Daan Rares Day 2,012, 12:22

Stai lnistit, daca e sa luptam vreodata cot la cot va fi contra Ucrainei/Rusiei.

BeJIuKaH
BeJIuKaH Day 2,011, 10:36

buahahahahha

Nemo Bitzu
Nemo Bitzu Day 2,011, 10:47

Foulish people think HU and RO can be friends.. muhahaha :)0

thaddaus
thaddaus Day 2,011, 11:14

let me say 1 thing:

PUCK FOLAND

FAIL two

i said more than 1! ahaha

ADWAITA
ADWAITA Day 2,011, 23:39

let me say 1 thing

you're in large minority with this opinion

and another thing

try to live in present not in past time ( ancient past ) LOL

Paul T. Craciunescu
Paul T. Craciunescu Day 2,012, 03:40

I agree with this, why should we let the past mistakes of some leaders stand in the way of our co-operation? In my relationship with the ordinary Polish players, they've been always helpful and friendly. Poland is a great nation in RL, I respect them and I don't see any reason why we shouldn't be friends now based on a misunderstanding from 100 years ago that made us split apart. The past is past and our future is to fight together from now.

googoodoll
googoodoll Day 2,012, 05:22

Many of us understood what TWO wanted, Romania to not be a threat for Hu in Ukraine. For the others, like you above, who dreams about bonuses from this alliance, let me say one thing: That will not going to happen. Nobody in TWO cares about Romania and it's bonuses.

mcmoox
mcmoox Day 2,011, 11:14

MCMOOX je bio ovde!!!!

vladb
vladb Day 2,011, 11:29

I am glad that somebody else also remembered that Bulgaria left Phoenix because FYROM joined and they are now BFF.

What strikes me most is that people from countries with a strong record of changing BFFs write articles about fake (artificial) alliances.

Paul T. Craciunescu
Paul T. Craciunescu Day 2,011, 11:33

Hypocrites, hypocrites everywhere.

basic instinct
basic instinct Day 2,011, 11:50

lets remember that Bulgaria and Turkey were allies in Pheonix but when Turkey came to Eden they decided they hate them

Paul T. Craciunescu
Paul T. Craciunescu Day 2,011, 11:32

Soundtrack of the article: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRGd0gD0QNE

Maegalodonus
Maegalodonus Day 2,011, 12:27

EDEN propaganda

Paul T. Craciunescu
Paul T. Craciunescu Day 2,011, 12:38

not sure if trolling or..

cc1432
cc1432 Day 2,011, 19:28

wrong ! is TEDEN propaganda !

Grainne Ni Mhaille
Grainne Ni Mhaille Day 2,011, 13:11

*applause*

FANTOMA88
FANTOMA88 Day 2,011, 21:39

bun articol, vreu sa iti sugerez sa pui si varianta in lb romana pentru cei ce nu cunosc engleza
o7

Iain Keers
Iain Keers Day 2,012, 00:12

I don't speak it, but I'll happily publish it if someone translates. Alternatively all my articles are open source and can be republished by anyone

 
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