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T2 Day 15 - Proposed Food VAT Increase
You're making me so hungry right now...
Finally, something to squawk about!
Previously, I opposed raising the food VAT to 8%, but now I'm voting in favor of raising the VAT to 12%.
Why? Well, you'd have to understand that our situation is almost completely the opposite of what it once was.
Before:
Q1 Food prices were regularly in the 99 cent to 1.08 USD range, making it difficult to afford food on the minimum wage of 1.00 USD. Raising the VAT made those prices even higher, regularly more than a dollar all the time. Food prices constantly above minimum wage? Ugh.
Add to that, we were constantly under attack, usually losing states. Morale was low and who would want to pay even more for food when we're struggling just to afford Q1 weapons? Having 20% income taxes, on top of all of this, was probably a sore spot for folks as well.
Also, Meals on Wheels, the program meant to help those most in need with Q1 food relief, was nowhere to be found (what? They never replied to me).
Now:
Ironically enough, as of yesterday, Q1 Food prices are on the rise. Lowest Q1 food price I see is 0.64 cents and there are no signs that this increase is going to stop anytime soon. For weeks previously, however, we'd seen a steady decline, due to overproduction and other economic factors, all the way down to 0.54 cents or less.
And in all those weeks, I was getting pretty tired of seeing prices for everything decrease dramatically. I figured, though, that the previously proposed hike in Food VAT that I had initially dismissed out of hand was now worth re-examining, now that food prices were so low anyway, as a source of additional military funding (we're still engaged militarily, even if it's mostly not on domestic soil).
Meals on Wheels has been put under new leadership that regularly replies to mails and distributes food. They've now got over 2500 pieces of Q1 food available for distribution to the needy. What's more, they're so efficient when it comes to money that they haven't had to request government funding in months.
Not that I think their aid will be needed. We (civilians, at least) are not buying weapons as much as we were before, our economy isn't in a constant state of flux due to losing states, and as a result, we should have more money just laying around for buying Houses and such things. Believe me, if I thought this tax was going to hurt newbies, I would vote against it.
In short (too late, right?), even with recent wage deflation, people have the money to spend a little more on food. I'm spending less than half of my wages on food. I really don't think Q1 food prices are going to be more than a dollar for a while, even with the increased VAT, and I'd like to see them closer to a dollar, as that's what passes for normal around here, for me. On the basis of my admittedly not-very-economic argument, I don't see why anyone would be against this. Most of the people voting No in Congress haven't bothered to explain why they're against it, either. So I really don't get it. Why not try something?
It'd be infinitely easier for me to say No to increased taxes out of hand, without bothering to explain why, too. I could rest assured that no one was going to post nasty comments on my articles or send me angry mails -- or if they did, I could declare that I was against the increased taxes. But then we'd all just be sitting there in Congress, not doing much of anything beyond donating tax money to the Congressional Budget Office, as we miss out on potential revenue for the government/military that I don't think anyone paying a few more cents for a loaf of bread is going to mind not having.
I want the military to do the best it can and that means funding. This isn't like real life where the corrupt politicians are going to pocket the difference for themselves; whatever's leftover (if there's anything left over) will sit in reserve for emergency funding, like if the military suddenly has to tank a lot. One of the reasons our country was overrun in the first place (I'm sure there are many) is because we didn't have a large fund sitting in reserve for emergency military use. Point is, the tax dollars the government gets from measures like this is going towards the greater good. Or at least, that's the reasoning. It's not like we're going to spend it on Q5 jet planes and champagne.
For more economic arguments on why the Food VAT should be raised, check out sydiot's newspaper here. Folks from Congress have been invited to post why they're against the raise there. Although, they had the chance to weigh in on the topic that has been around for weeks as well as the more recent proposal topic. Someone's shown up in the comments section of that article, finally, to argue against the raise, so be sure to check that out if you're interested in debate.
As for this being bad for food company owners in the short run, we're looking at the bigger picture here. There are too many companies producing much too much and not enough people buying what's out there, which is the primary reason to blame for the crash in prices, according to those advising us, not low import taxes. Some companies will close, but as has been pointed out to me, the market is already tough due to over-availability and companies are going to have to close anyway -- others will make the best of the situation and continue to thrive.
One non-Congressperson arguing against the raise said that this was a measure that was anti-little guy and pro-big business. I can't believe that at all, when I think that those most likely to be hurt by this tax are struggling food companies and "the little guy" is going to be just fine paying a few more cents for a Q1 Food -- if they're not, there's always Meals on Wheels (which, admittedly, needs to get the word out more about their service). But heck, most people aren't working minimum wage jobs; and some that are, they're doing so through government-owned Skill 0 job hubs that provide them with vital information, including information about programs like Meals on Wheels.
As has been drilled into my brain plenty of times by those advising Congress, it's not the government's job to ensure the profitability of any one sector of the economy. We're trying to make sure the whole thing keeps working here and, yes, with revenue to keep the military being the best that it can be as well (which is towards what the vast amount of taxpayer money goes).
As for why we're not raising import taxes, as I understand it, low import taxes give consumers more access to cheaper "stuff" and having lots of stuff cheaply available for consumers (and the military) to buy is a good thing. From an economic standpoint, we want people buying stuff, early and often, especially if we can slap on a VAT on that cheap good in order to make some extra cash every time someone buys something.
Operation Mayhem has begun. They'll be building Q5 Hospitals and then Q5 Defense Systems for future use for eUSA. Can't say I was exactly thrilled to see they'll be doing hospitals before defense systems, but it's probably because Max McFarland 2 already had one built at 35% beforehand.
It's sad that they had to go around Congress to accomplish this, but I think that just highlights the lack of trust between the military and Congress. To be honest, Congress was working on something that wouldn't involve Max McFarland 2, particularly making use of the government-owned Q5 Defense System company attached to Fort Knox, with high-skill volunteers (civilian and military), but the military and Max got their project started -- and with the approval of the President, no less -- sooner.
So, all the best to them and I hope it works out. Any agreement with Congress would've involved a contract, to ensure that someone doesn't run off with the merchandise (Congress isn't big on trust, given past events). I'm trying to determine right now if there's any contract involved here. It's not that I don't trust Max, it's just that ... well, heck, I was gullible enough to think that our Presidents do not, and have never, cheated -- then the memoirs of prominent past Presidents came out and proved otherwise. So, there.
Voting Record - Day 15
Proposal: Alliance
Proposed by: DaLe
Description: President of Czech Republic proposed a mutual protection pact with USA
Voting Choice: Yes
Result: 41 Yes, 0 No
Details: Foreign relations. Regular MPP renewal.
Proposal: Donate
Proposed by: Dodgercatcher
Description: Do you agree to transfer 546 DKK from the country accounts to Congressional Budget Office?
Voting Choice: Yes
Result: 43 Yes, 0 No
Details: Money matters. We're skipping over RUB, IDR, and a few other currencies that build up quickly and donating the ones that have been sitting there for a while, first.
Proposal: Alliance
Proposed by: Gaius Julius
Description: President of USA proposed a mutual protection pact with Croatia
Voting Choice: Yes
Result: 38 Yes, 0 No
Details: Foreign relations. Regular MPP renewal.
Proposal: Donate
Proposed by: seeker1
Description: Do you agree to transfer 446 INR from the country accounts to Congressional Budget Office?
Voting Choice: Yes
Result: 38 Yes, 0 No
Details: Money matters. We've got more than enough proposals so that we can make a donation a day and still be okay.
Proposal: Tax change: Food
Proposed by: sydiot
Description:
Taxes - New - Old
Value added tax (VAT) - 12% - 8%
Import Tax - 5% - 5%
Income Tax - 20% - 20%
Voting Choice: Yes
Result: 21 Yes, 17 No
Details: It's being called the Vittles for Victory Act. I'd be disappointed if this didn't pass. I really want to see if we can make things better, in the long term, by getting this passed. Yes, by the government having more money to spend on military needs at only a nominal cost to the average consumer. And if we don't, then to pass another law undoing this one. The Economic Council has no strong objections to this that they've shared with us and one of their members is the one who proposed it to us for debate in the first place.
As for what's up with all the Iran-centered articles lately... well, see for yourself. Apparently all that crowing about liberating Iran in articles like arrogant RL Americans, fanning flames of RL hatred of America, was about liberating North Korean territories. Wow, the Ameri-centric propaganda was so not necessary. But then, I'm not one of those people who play shoot 'em up wargames and needs to rub stuff in the other guy's face before attacking.
The only impact it's had on me, personally, is that random Iranian guys send me Friend requests, hah.
Also: Abrivianius: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Iran!
Coming to a theater near you, America,
~ Katherine "Astra" Gallagher
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JIZZED and JAZZED!
Senator Astra is right about the Food VAT! An extra cent on your burger is an extra gun in a soldier's hand. Votado!
I love reading these articles. Even the details in the voting record. You're giving this RL Californian much pride for in-game California.
In Max we trust
My urging of a small import tax is not to save poorly run companies here, but to keep the jobs here. A worker here pays 20% income tax to the US Treasury. A worker in "Ukraine" pays none to it!
Nice article, an extra 4% isn't going to kill anyone. I just hope when things get settled our tax rates get adjusted to the average global levels.
Nice work. Appreciate all the effort to explain decisions. Voted.
we still have war debt to pay ... agree with the tax increase.
Great article, sucks I'm in Greece for the military so I'm missing all the fun back home ;_;
Astra, it is not, I humbly suggest, your right to count the amount of change in my pocket, and decide whether I need it or not.
Wages aren't just deflating, they are collapsing.
The eUS defensive posture is stable. Our wars have wound down. We do not face another massive, coordinated invasion for the near future, so the government does not need anymore revenue than currently available to rebuild our defenses.
Your vote to take our money does not only affect the mealy-wheelie newbies, it diminishes the prospects of every ecitizen to make their own way in this phony-boloney world.
You know I respect and admire you. And I hope you know I'd vote you Constitutional Queen of the Known Universe and Parallel Dimensions Besides. But on this issue I must break with you.
@jfbranson This isn't going to affect anything that much. If it was increased to like 20%, then yes, it would be taking out a lot of peoples wages. But it is still relatively low and doesn't take out too much more. You actually canceled your argument by saying that our defense is stable. There is really nothing else to buy so the government has to make their money somewhere since people don't need weapons, tickets, as many gifts, etc... Food was the next best choice. I wouldn't be surprised if houses has a small tax increase as well.
Joshua, what do you mean "there is nothing else to buy"? With my money, I can buy lots of swell things: houses, gold, gifts for others. See, lots of stuff to buy with my money.
Look, I really don't like sounding grouchy. But if you think my argument for a citizen's right to keep his money hinges on whether or not he needs to buy guns (which I think you inferred from my post, for some reason), well, you're wrong. I happily give my income to the egovernment for specific, well-defined reasons (The Russians are at the gates, for example).
If you'd like to donate your money to the eUS government, go ahead. But don't whinge at me that I've got plenty and besides it's not so much. I've fought my battles, and I've spent my gold on weapons to fight PEACE. I've done my bit.
Joshua, you seem like a nice fella. I'm sorry I'm a grouch.
hahhahahahahaha
Voted and spammed.
Please return the favor.
<a href="http://www2.erepublik.com/en/article/spain-bikini-s-and-jack-flufferton-977594/1/20" target="_blank">http://www2.erepublik.com/en/article/spa[..]/1/20</a>
@jfbranson I didn't think you were a grouch, just saying that food is currently the main thing bought in the eUS (besides raw materials). I was explaining that the government is trying to capitalize on a market that is basically the only one that is still in need.
I also ran the numbers and Q1 food increases from 8% to 12% by .03 cents, Q2 by .04 cents, Q3 by .1, Q4 by .2, and Q5 by .3 cents. Not really asking for much more from newbs or experience players.
Free Iran!
@jfbranson
we still have some more fighting to do. With Hungary sitting in the broalliance countries, the US gov is going to need some serious cash in order to kick them out. seeing as how prices plummeted, id say wages arent collapsing, they are just adjusting to the new price standard.(mine have actually increased)
the numbers josh patterson gives arent really going to buy you that shinny new Q1 weapon. However, the total taken from the population will fund a few more tanks, which is better than if you or I fought with whatever savings we had from not increasing the tax.
Kat,
Re: "Can't say I was exactly thrilled to see they'll be doing hospitals before defense systems, but it's probably because Max McFarland 2 already had one built at 35% beforehand."
~ Clarification: The Q5 Defense System in production was actually much closer to completion than the Q5 Hospital in production.
~ My civilian volunteers should have the first Q5 Defense System complete by Tuesday. Once complete, I will publish and advertise an article thanking by name all those who have sacrificed with me. After publication, this Q5 Defense System will be placed on the market for $0.01, pending further action by the President and Congress; there is effectively zero government cost, since I paid for all expenses 100% myself. The ball will be in your court.
Re: "-- and with the approval of the President, no less --"
~ Welllll..... what can I say? I'm smart, I'm funny, and gosh-darnit, people like me.
Re: "Congress isn't big on trust, given past events."
~ Unfortunate. Trust is very important.
Re: "I'm trying to determine right now if there's any contract involved here."
~ No.
Re: "It's not that I don't trust Max, it's just that ..."
~ Well, do you trust me? Or don't you? One is one, never two.
~ In whom do you trust?
~ Thanks again for great reporting; I'll be quite sad if you ever lose a Congressional election. I have a subscription to the newspaper written by each member of Congress, but on days like today where I am short on time, I only read yours. You cover everything quickly, concisely, interestingly, and accurately.
V/r,
Max
Typical eAmericans... lying in the media for attention.
"@jfbranson This isn't going to affect anything that much. If it was increased to like 20%, then yes"
Increased to 12% means nothing but once it hits 20% it means something? We already have a 20% income tax. Now we have a 12% VAT tax. My income as a level 4 resource gatherer is at 11 dollars, really it is 9 dollars thanks to the 20% income tax, and guess what, my income is likely to continue to go down. So how does this raise in taxes help me in anyway? So our military has more guns to use in training wars? The fact that Astra freely admits that she felt raising the income tax wasn't going to fly so instead opted to raise a tax somewhere else reveals just how silly this all is. I wonder, when will these folks in congress start cutting taxes?
I imagine the next election will have a lot to do with tax and domestic policies instead of just "you are super popular so my vote goes to you ". Finally.
Astra, yes, of course. Quibbling over a few pennies when the national interest is at stake would be a mean, small argument. So let me clarify: we already pay taxes. Lots of them, percentage-wise. My fear is that when major military activities have come to an end, and the debt is brought under control, the tax rates will not go back down.
I argue that Newbie two-clickers who see their clicking "work" bearing less fruit after so much taxation will find it harder to accumulate money (read: stuff to buy things with, which is fun!), and will have less interest in continuing in this game.
Frankly, is it so much to ask our government for a list of objectives and timetables? Can we have firm list of programs that will ensure our safety and stability? "Defeat the Hungarians" is an objective. "Settle the Limey's Hash!" is another. But, absent a statement of specific goals, I contend it is laughable to expect the eUS government to ever find a way to not spend the ecitizens money in ways that do not generally benefit the average ecitizen.
I realize that the egovernment is composed of people who weigh the facts at hand, and bring their own experience and knowledge into the decision making process. And I do not cast aspersions against the good intentions of any eCongressmen. The egovernment has spoken in this matter. we had elections, and the winners of that election voted. But then again, new elections are always coming, aren't they?
In this matter, you have not swayed my mind, either.
Respectfully and Humbly yours, jfbranson
Kat,
Re: "...but didn't have any stats..."
~ It's actually possible for anyone to figure out the production schedule with public data. On the company homepage, right below the stock number is a small set of numbers: xxxx/2000. That first number is current progress. Next, click through to look at the workers. Total up the most recent daily productivity for each. At this point, it is a simple matter of subtraction and division to figure out how many days remain until product completion.
~ This might be something you want to assign a member of the infrastructure committee to track on excel for all infrastructure companies you are considering; this way you have an internal estimate for timetables to gauge their claims against.
Re: "Also, I was told that Hospitals were getting completed first."
~ In many ways, you know more than me. I trust the leadership to make the big plans; I work the small details.
Re: "Listen, I personally trust you, but..."
~ Don't mind me. I'm just thrilled by a certain meme that has been making the rounds this weekend. Have you seen it? It has even spread to be comment number 5 on this article.
~ Also, you make a good number of valid points.
Re: "It's not like a real life business venture where you build a relationship with your partner based on trust alone for mutual profitability. I mean, we COULD do it that way, but in this game, to me, it makes a lot more sense to just go the contract route."
~ We could. Easily. More risk, perhaps, but infinitely more fun. The point of a game, after all, is to have fun.
V/r,
Max
To jfbranson:
"My fear is that when major military activities have come to an end, and the debt is brought under control, the tax rates will not go back down."
I used to have that fear, too, but then the Economic Council recommended reducing income taxes (from 25 to 20 percent) so I have a feeling that when either they and/or Congress deem it wise, taxes will be lowered.
I argue that newbie two-clickers don't really notice the returns on their work and training. I sure as heck didn't notice how much of it was going to taxes at first, lol.
I think there used to be objectives and timetables before the war, but then the situation became so fluid that it was a struggle just to keep things running at all. Maybe now that the war's ended, we'll have more of that sort of thing. I know there's already a Budget -- woefully outdated, but still, we go by it (Budget Committee is getting on making a new one...). That's objectives and timetables, ain't it?
"But, absent a statement of specific goals, I contend it is laughable to expect the eUS government to ever find a way to not spend the ecitizens money in ways that do not generally benefit the average ecitizen."
Err, yeah, I don't expect the government will ever lack the ability to find ways to spend the eCitizens' money in ways that generally benefit the average eCitizen.
To Max:
Re: "stats" -- Well, all I meant was a percentage estimation on how far along a DS was, as compared to a H. Thanks for the suggestion regarding Excel, though.
I see that meme you're talking about.
And: Oh believe me, I'd love to just let loose and have fun and take risks and yippee kai yay, brotha... but frankly, when it comes to something as important as this, that's just plain irresponsible. Yes, it's a game, but it's also a lot of work for those of us trying to ensure that the average eCitizen has a fun environment in which to play.
Astra, yes that wan't my best post ever. (I blame the damned syphillis finally hitting my brains.) So, hollowed out brains regardless, let me just address one part of your reply:
"I used to have that fear, too [income taxes never being reduced], but then the Economic Council recommended reducing income taxes (from 25 to 20 percent) so I have a feeling that when either they and/or Congress deem it wise, taxes will be lowered."
Your "feeling"? You're a congresswoman. Will you reduce the income taxes once this specific crisis is done?
It's not up to just me, but if it's brought to the floor as part of a tax change plan, then yes, I'd vote to lower income taxes.