State Commune yes or no? / Staat Commune ja of nee ?
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by GEN. DE LA REY
With the current situation in E-Republik our state commune which we have invested a lot of our gold in is paying 50% less than what is available on the job market.
At first I thought this would be a temporary thing, however this situation has continued for months now and the gap seems to be growing.
Does it make sense for us to work in a commune and earn 36 weapons per week or should we rather get a job which pays 45 nl per day which you can use to buy 52.5 weapons per week. Are we as a community losing money or is somebody cashing in on the situation?
Should we not temporarily suspend the commune activity until the economics of the game changes? To make it worthwhile to the worker he or she will need to be paid at least 9 weapons per day as it stands at the moment.
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State communes haven't been running properly for 2 years now I reckon. We need a better DAF infrastructure and some investments to make it work again.
Producing 20 tanks per worker and only paying 5/6 tanks as wage is something I cannot even comprehend.
Do something good or don't do it at all!
The communes have nothing to do with the DAF infrastructure. Try to be better informed.
Maybe that is the problem. Having non-military politicians, mainly MoF, decide how to structure a commune is a sure way to failure. But then again who am I, only someone who is a senior officer since 2012 in a MU that does 3.5x more damage than the entire NL.
When was the last time you was DAF member or member of a former state MU? 🙂
When Q7's were priced above 10 nl the commune did generate extra income for the worker, however this has changed some months ago.
It shouldn't really be about income, but about having enough weapons (and food) to fight every day, and if we cant provide that, to work towards maximizing it. If people work in communes to sell the tanks there is something seriously wrong..
Income can be in the form of weapons, food, gold or money, and work is always about the income no matter which way you look at it.
Precisely GdlR. It's all about generating resources (=income) to make it work. Training or on the battlefield doesn't matter. We all need resources in some form. That will vary per person and stage (s)he is ingame...
Yay MU's vs. state communes. Can lay it out for me why the fuck a MU could govern a commune better than any government official? It could be the same person doing that shit for crying out loud.
It hasn't been running properly for all that time because everyone knew there was a big gap that Dave was patching on his own while congress was dismissing any idea's to fix the system because it was too expensive and/or too risky.
As we speak we are investing 20G/day to improve the system and you know that very well.
5/6 tanks out of 20 is because still a majority of the raws have to be bought. So a lot of those Q7s have to be sold to patch up for it.
I know and I think it is a good effort, but I do feel it is being done much later than needed. Month after month both MoD and congress did nothing about it while it should have been a top priority.
Yes, but we don't live in the past, so we can only make up for that by doing it now. Relocating the management isn't going to solve the problems in the past or speeding the current situation up.
Only thing you still can do is start a fundraiser so we can buy a Tycoon pack for our managers next time it comes around so we can move an extra 280G in without losing time.
It is indeed MoF thing, but DAF recognises the need and we are in premanent contact to help where we can to improve things.
Try to read the, according to you, tldr article about it somewhere on forum. You'll find it covers it when implemented at full. Intended for all eNL citizens, disregarding MU but given the developments lately perhaps some people will be excluded now.
Perhaps you'll learn something about it as since the time you were involved in communes the Q7 was introduced which changed a lot. So the simple comparison of producing 20 while paying 5/6 can't be made (yet). But hey you were asleep back then and apparently lost track of some facts and haven't catched up. Being a senior officer since 2012 ain't worth shit if you don't keep up with reality. Then you'd just as well be a senile pensioner.
And you may spit on MoF dept but as you concluded yourself the commune indeed wasn't working for years and MoD kept sleeping. So some MoF developed a system that actually could work...
Weekstrom, my replies to your commune system were influenced by the greater political situation that was highly polarized. My comments were therefor stronger than they would have been in normal circumstances. While I am more directly involved in optimizing damage output of my MU, I do have full view into the inner commune workings. It took us one day to facilitate the change to Q7 weapons.
I did fully read and consider your proposal on the forum. It would absolutely work, but I do feel it would not be an optimal setup. There is some complexity and dependence on variables that should ideally be eliminated. I did not aid in constructive debate because I did not think I would have been included by vS, and because I back then somewhat felt the communes were largely abused for the benefit of PG (which is not an attack on PG but on executive policies from it's leader).
I do not spit on the ministry of finance, but I did return to a very different financial policy and much broader MoF activity than I was used to. In hindsight I realize the expansion of MoF is largely due to picking up the slack behind other inactive ministries, for which you are mainly to applaud. I still however do disagree with the way we look at our finances, and I do intend to make changes to it if I become president next month.
Good to hear Garmr. And a shame you were not able/willing to look at it from the military perspective and communicate about it back-then. But I do realize, although flawed, several people think I was, and perhaps still am, a puppet of vS/MdR. Those who know me or tried to look at what I really stated know I'm no ones puppet. And I'm sure vS will tell the same as I've been a pain in the b*t to him as well when we didn't agree on matters. Which happened several times but as we were a team it didn't come outside the "IRC walls" and we stood united. As every gov/team should imo. But people do get wrong ideas as a result...
As for the structure of the finances; The point was arriving we could restructure matters when it comes to expenses. Due to the gold earned and a few other matters. Which was one of the reasons for my earlier proposal which was only a starting point at the time.
Further restructuring finances should not need to be a problem as finances have been stable for quite some time now which was absolutely different when I started as MoF. As long as it's made sure large fluctuations in the financial side of eRep don't cause problems due to some stupid rules like we still have or a cowboy at the helm...
Also it would be very interesting to investigate the possibilities with the commune. Which dependences or variables you see should be changed/eliminated. It would have been very interesting to discuss that matters back-then. Sadly there seemed to be no one that actually was able to discuss matters and help it to develop. Although I did have help developing the plan from Nictefa as a sparring partner it was still mainly my view that was not challenged. Discussing it after the presentation could have improved it as I do not have all the wisdom. But as long as no one discusses matters, using arguments in stead of just stating things, I do go on on the course I see best for eNL as otherwise we won't progress. Well at l;east that's what I've been doing for a while until the point I really felt like Don Quichot.
Dave needs to get his ass back in a 100% country and start paying 7Q7/day. Aries is his contact for that though.
I think 8 is already possible as well, especially now we can start sending workers to Heikanu soon. It will only go up from there of course 🙂
this sounds really promising \o/
That will largely depend on the amount of state raw comps the commune owners posses and their willingness to operate then for a large part themselves in stead of with workers. But given the way gov started implementing the communes I'd say we produce just about enough tanks to let workers get paid 5-6 a day...
Oh and of course also on the amount of extra factories. And when I left politics there was no willingness in congress nor gov to improve that amount to the necessary numbers 🙁
Don't worry too much Weekstrom, Q5 raws are pumped in at a rate of 4 per week. And Dave has some extra Q7 comps privately that are used to place the extra workers in the mean time. We will end up funding one extra of those as well.
I agree with you there, I would fully support a large gold investment to increase the number of WRM companies on the accounts of commune holders.
Regarding the willingness of congress/cabinet to improve, I feel that is due to the somewhat overwhelmingly detailed argumentation you provide. While it is absolutely needed and good to crunch the numbers, I think that a large majority of congress and maybe even the cabinet will get lost and fail to see the big picture. It then comes down to a handful of opinion makers to determine what happens, and if something at all happens.
Quite well possible Garmr. And one of the reasons I've been in favour of developing an Audit chamber of a few players. Players that are actually able to comprehend matters in stead of being dependent of ever changing CM. Most of the time they don't seem to have a clue or interest in putting an effort in some more complicated stuff.
But sadly people were not able to look behind politics and were worried their party was not involved while the focus for this kind off issues needs to be non political. Only the right players for the job should matter.
If every worker pays for the raw or provides the raw you will not have to buy or produce it, so every worker will earn more tanks.
Problem is you can't donate raws, otherwise workers could work in their own raw materials plants and simply donate.. we could however dump raws on th market while communicating with commune holders.
Negative thing is that working results in xp. So working in raw plants lowers your X/S. I make my own food to save money but some people are really focussed on their strength
I know that you can't donate, but once a week, you can put an offer in the market and the company manager can buy it, and then you send him the money back, the possible losses with the taxes are not a problem, so the money would go to the CT, and the country can gave him back this money or something like this.
About the exp, it's really a problem, but maybe you can offer two options, more weapons if you pay the raw, less if you don't.
Most easy way is to produce, sell on the local market and pay the amount of cash generated to the commune manager. As you don't pay taxes on raw's nothing is lost and it saves the commune manager travelling costs...
I flat out recommend getting a job in Poland or somewhere that is better.
As for Dave, it's just very difficult to communicate with him. I've asked him to go to 6Q7 but that's slow. He has trouble firing workers that don't work full time. Chile is currently at 80% bonus. I don't blame Dave because he has his own real life job and he runs an entire commune for st6 as well. The point is there isn't much more I/we can do so please find better alternatives. I expect heikanu to be a great new startup once we are ready with him.
Don't burn bridges as Dave is still the biggest supplier for eNL and has done so for several months funding it from his own pockets. And yes he's not the most easy person to talk to but we have more of those. You and I myself are not that easy to communicate with as well...
It's just a slow process and since people are asking, I answered.
Just have to say, reading the article and replies actually put a smile on my face. For once there has actually been a constructive debate, unlike most of the mud throwing I've seen in the past concerning these (and other) issues.
Indeed. If this might become the new way of discussing I might even think about returning to politics/forum and invest time in improving matters for eNL