Communication - Not Propaganda. RO-BG
Shadow Figure
The president of Germany
to German and Polish people
I was reading a couple of articles and comments
http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/romanian-bulgarian-diplomacy-1136361/1/all and
http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/-bg-to-garabeda-the-bulgarian-government-and-the-bulgarian-players-in-general-1137931/1/all
What caught my attention:
First, both Bulgarians and Romanians think the citizens of the other country hate them, while no one hates anybody. As you know, in erepublik military actions = fun, not hate.
Still there are insults between us. This is regrettable, I wish we were less impulsive and more civilized. I doesn’t worth much, but I want to apologize for the insults coming from Romania. As for the jokes with pickles and ‘mamaligutza’, we shouldn’t take them too seriously.
Second, Bulgarians will not accept Romania’s terms. I understand Bulgarians are proud and will never surrender. That makes them a tough enemy and a valuable ally. +1 to respect! But Romanians are also proud, so this happens:
Bulgarians see: hard negotiations where Romania assumes a position of superior power.
Romanians see: soft negotiations where Romania shows good will.
Well, the truth must be somewhere in the middle. But as long as Romania has superior power I suppose it will negotiate from a position of superior power. Maybe we negotiate hard, but for sure we fight even harder.
And here comes third, the fights. I understand Bulgarians are angry and frustrated because of Romania’s numerous military actions (PTO’s included here) against them. And Romanian’s are equally frustrated and angry because Bulgaria is a constant obstacle for Romania’s goals, always blocking Romania’s way to the south.
Romania is following it’s interests and her allies interest, exactly like Bulgaria does. No reason to be angry about it.
Forth, a little history: Bulgaria became Romania's enemy very early in the game. At that time Romania was trying to expand going around Bulgaria. This still happens today. What has changed though:
In that old times war was something evil, very very immoral. Sound ridiculous now, but back then war was analyzed with irrelevant opinions from RL. At that time Romania was despised by almost everyone, even some allies, for growing into an empire.
I think this had lot to do with Bulgaria becoming Romania's enemy. Romania and Bulgaria became enemies because of considerations about war relevant in RL, not in erepublik.
My point is that "we've always been on different" is not a reason to be enemies in the future, considering what I said about the past. Ancient history here .
Still, almost for sure Romania and Bulgaria will remain enemies, and even a NAP (non aggression pact) is improbable in the near future. But I hope there will be a better understanding and communication between our countries. And we’ll all have fun.
I wish you good luck Bulgaria, but I won’t hold any punches.
Ps. Please note I retired from all official positions a long time ago. This are my opinions, but I’m sure a lot of people from Romania will agree. The same article was published in Romania, here
Comments
Lepa.
True
Ain't you nuts? Bulgarians definately hate the romanians already.
Let me break into your house with a machine gun, break up your TV set, and set it on fire cursing you and all the female members of your family in the proces.
If I return at the next day and say "It was a little missunderstanding, take kare, we are cool now", would we be really cool, shake hands and choir hapilly Kumba-Ya?
Very wise and objective words!
yes it is fun, you smash a bug because you can and it won't cost much, and you laugh, ha ha, funny, ha ha, ha ha I did not take my pills
Podkrepa: Assuming you played a multiplayer game of.. I don't know warcraft3 or Rome total war. You wreak havoc, maybe event taunt your 'enemy' during the game but if you lose will you desire to break his neck the next day?
Good article!
Podkrepa, I don't hate Romanians! In my opinion, only young and inexperienced( by that I mean in real life) people are letting the hate take the best of them. When you play counter strike and somebody kills you, do you hate him?
you pushed us into Peace, you pushed us into Phoenix, you exploited our indecisiveness
Really, it's true, but there is no way Bulgaria and Romania will be best friends in erepublik soon.
I don't hate bulgarians. I just think that they have recrutet new people from the nazi forums and in general they have reacted vrey stupid.
The best example is Podkrepa, a new player, and Ivan Minkov, an old player. They both think this was a personal thing and we have destroied the beautiful Bulgarya.
eBulgarya was part of Pheonix since I remember and a legitimate target. Bulgarya was in ower way for Asia and the only route posible. Bulgarya has atack us in ower original teritories opening ower MPP and making her destruction very posible. Alone we coul never doit.
Remember that you whanted to destroy eRoamnia as well. You have fail. We didn't. What is the diferece betwen both action?
Well, not best friends, but at least enemies that respect each other 🙂
It's a hell of a difference between playing with someone that wants to break your neck in the street and playing with someone you would drink a beer with anytime. 🙂
@Podkrepa: just don't touch my laptop because I won't be able to play erepublik anymore 😃
Nice article! Vote! 🙂
Google translate:
"We are negotiating with the 3 countries in the top 10 (by population) - Hungary, Russia and Indonesia, as we are close to an extension of our alliance with Hungary. "
Well, you were pretty much pro-Phoenix.. Far from a 100% neutral country. ( Still I, personally, wasn't at all in favor of this 'South campaign' )
Don't forget that Grakulan was one of the biggest Pheonix trolls since long time and the bulgarian army has always suported Pheonix actions since... Actualy you have always suported ower enemys action.
What did you expect us to belive of you?
Good article!
Good language!
Good attitude!
you are missing the point, which is - in BOTH cases(in Phoenix or not) we should sign MPP with one big country, preferably two,
we decided two,
still indecisive about Phoenix here http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/-1-1075015/1/20" target="_blank">http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/-1-1[..]1/20
and later donation action for second MPP was proposed http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/mpp-1-1077659/1/20" target="_blank">http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/mpp-[..]1/20
next is your war vote http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/-1-1078592/1/20" target="_blank">http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/-1-1[..]/1/20
Grakulan is a traitor, he fought for the enemy a week or more
http://ereptools.net/battles/playerFights/id/1270734" target="_blank">http://ereptools.net/battles/playerFight[..]0734
ctrl+f and find Madrid and see 7 lines above
Grakulan isn't a troll..
Indecisive, but only taking into consideration mpps with Hungary, Serbia, Russia and Indonesia which are arch-enemies with EDEN. That is you haven't taken into consideration neither Greece nor Romania as potential partners.
Actually, one of the reasons of the attacks as far as I read was to see how well would Romania do 1vs'1' with Hungary.
...good article...but i think "in-game" hating is perfectly fine!!!...there's nothing bad in hating eRomanians (just as long as you make the difference with RL Romanians of course)...just the opposite - this "in-game" hating makes the game more fun ;p
yeah, he is damn troll, see he fought against Peace for 10 days
find Madrid and see 7 lines
http://ereptools.net/battles/playerFights/id/1270734" target="_blank">http://ereptools.net/battles/playerFight[..]70734
...good article...but i think there's nothing wrong with "in-game" hating - just the opposite, it makes the game more fun ;p
...so it's perfectly fine to hate eRomanians (as long as you make the difference with RL Romanians of course)...
it`s not about love or hate. it`s about politics and diplomacy. no one asks you to love each other, but to have some basic respect and decency.
think about that, all 🙂
Finally some clever attitude. But I couldn't agree that we have conflicts in RL. In RL bulgarians have mostly friendly feeling to romanians.
so, if we haven't signed even single MPP you would've acknowledged that we'd be neutral, give me a break
if we were not bordering with you and greece, you can be sure that we would've signed MPP only with Russia for those NK wargames that were running by that time
Ivan Minkov - Tacking size was not a proble. The war and the atacks were not a problem.
" Podreka - Wrong, bulgarians already hate the romanians."
This atitude I consider to be a problem.
@X_p_M: Same here. Good feelings and Bulgarian sea resorts are really popular 😛
@Ivan Minkov: "you pushed us into Peace, you pushed us into Phoenix, you exploited our indecisiveness"
Romania was growing bigger and bigger that time, we wanted to expand. Maybe we could have done more to become allies, but we did try to expand going around Bulgaria.
Thank you all for reading!
http://www.erepublik.com/en/wars/show/322" target="_blank">http://www.erepublik.com/en/wars/show/32[..]/322
stop with that one on one crap, you were spanked twice - one on one plus 11
I really like Romanians, just not in eRepublik 🙂
@Stoich: good points. You say the hard negotiations don't work, so you confirm my presumption. But I also have a couple of things to say:
About the dangers you talk about, i wouldn't be very worried. I believe a country grows best under strong pressure. It doesn't matter if this pressure comes from trying to conquer another or the danger of being conquered. The stronger the pressure, the better 🙂 I think you know that, and you are relying on it for your future. Only it's not the best thing to have a baby boom while under foreign occupation...
I also believe we are far from all or nothing gambles. But our former president dsalageanu loved that kind of things. And his influence is still very strong around here.
Thanks for the comment, useful explanations
@Radar.2 etc....
It's just how it works. Read history... I don't know... It is not something personal, just mentality.
Bulgarians think of their lands as part of themselves and react fierce in any threat.
I tried to warn the romanians who were more than happy to assure us how pathetic, doomed, pissed, letft alone, being wholers, about to be claensed, whatever... we are and how we shoud start learning romanian that these are considered offensive and would not like the reaction, but none seemed to listen when atacking Sofia. None seemed to listen.
"A nation with a population of less than five million and a military budget of less than two million pounds per annum placed in the field within fourteen days of mobilization an army of 400,000 men, and in the course of four weeks moved that army over 160 miles in hostile territory, captured one fortress and invested another, fought and won two great battles against the available armed strength of a nation of twenty million inhabitants, and stopped only at the gates of the hostile capital. With the exception of the Japanese and Gurkhas, the Bulgarians alone of all troops go into battle with the fixed intention of killing at least one enemy."
Once again, this is true and seems that sorely you are going to learn it the hard way. (yeah, I guess, I'll get several more comments about how nuts I am)
P.S. bulgarians and especially the younger ones are fusing the gap between the real and virtual words. Arranging a meeting to phisically finish a fight started in some social network is pretty common between teens. After several deaths now we have some campaigns agaisnt it, even the foregn minister danced in a TV show to attract attention over the problem.
@Shadow Figure
"About the dangers you talk about, i wouldn't be very worried. I believe a country grows best under strong pressure. "
Guess towards where in our case since Serbia and Turkey are allies.
"Only it's not the best thing to have a baby boom while under foreign occupation..."
This could be argued. You are following an US manual and they are generally not the smartest people in universe especially when it comes to foreign relations.
1. we now have enough babies "born" with romanian citizenship to have several seats in your senate. Sadly it happened that some part of them pretty hardcore football fans.
2. in this game babies coast more resources than they bring back while their effect in battles would be doubtful.
Hahahah actually they are raising our children now, take care of our babies, they will fight you soon! 😃
Couple of comments.
1. "Romania and Bulgaria became enemies because of considerations relevant in RL, not in erepublik."
Not true. There are still people in Bulgaria who remember how we ended up on different sides of the barricade. Bulgaria did not harbor any hatred IRL against Romania. Most of the old users are pretty good about separating RL and eRepublik. Romania decided to attack us (and Hungary) about a year and a half ago and that forced us to organize into PEACE GC. If there was some RL hatred in Romania towards Bulgaria at the time, that is a separate issue and should be clarified.
2. Minkov, Grakulan fought for the attacker, which was France in that conflict. Or are you talking about someone else.
3. Radar 2, we did not advertise in Nazi sites. People, however, got upset about you starting a war against us and started using insults. Just like some people on your side do.
Also, in reality, we did not try to conquer Romania. We knew we have no chance against 10 MPPs. However, we decided to attack you because we needed to stir some action in order to get new babies in. We did to distract damage and all that but for Bulgaria the main issue was to make the game more appealing to new users. We were all aware that there could be only one way this would end but yet we decided to do it and be brave.
na4i mir ili voina 6a ima 6oto ako e mir varnete ni teritoriite
Unfortunately, people around seem to become more and more aggressive and violent.. Every country has it's own people ( mostly young teenagers ) that will always resort to insults and trolling.. and probably won't stop at that in the real world..
'Arranging a meeting to phisically finish a fight started in some social network is pretty common between teens.'
I'm sorry to hear this 😐
Having a babyboom under a foreign occupation is a double edged sword. What you said is true, but don't forget that many might just leave the game if they land in a foreign country.Anyway, baby-killing is not a fair-play thing to do.
@chukcha:
'Also, in reality, we did not try to conquer Romania. We knew we have no chance against 10 MPPs. However, we decided to attack you because we needed to stir some action in order to get new babies in. We did to distract damage and all that but for Bulgaria the main issue was to make the game more appealing to new users. We were all aware that there could be only one way this would end but yet we decided to do it and be brave.'
Great comment.. Because it works both ways ( you may safely swap 'Romania' with 'Bulgaria' ) 😃
In Romania ( in RL )I don't know about any sort of hate against you.
Shadow Figure, thanks for another great article, clarifying the different aspects of this issue!
We enjoy being Romania's game opponents, we like writing funny (and I mean "funny", not "insulting"😉 articles about you, we love a good fight and enjoy trying to ruin your carefully laid out plans 🙂
I personally hope insults and hatred will continue to decrease with time, because eR's a great place to project your RL ambitions and dreams, but investing negative feelings in the game only decreases the fun.
@ chukcha, don't worry about Ivan Minkov calling me a traitor - I'm going undercover in EDEN, so he's just building up my spy legend 🙂
Grakulan is a spy ..I always knew it .
The question is : for which side ? 🙂
@Podkrepa: good points, but we'll have to wait and see how many of the babies will remain in the game and 'grow up'.
@chukcha: about 1. I meant only the considerations about war that came from RL. That's what i wanted to say "Romania and Bulgaria became enemies because of considerations about war relevant in RL, not in erepublik." good stuff at 3, we tried something similar too
@Grakulan: thanks, good so see again. maybe you're actually an EDEN soldier goind undercover in Bulgaria. I hope i'm not blowing your cover 😛
Even when negotiating against a supreme power, one can be proud and achieve more than the ones bowing to the bard. I know, I was president of Hungary, when Romania occupied our regions and we saw no hope whatsoever. I had plenty of occassions to negotiate with Romania, the superpower of those times.
But we did not give up. Did not give in. If we had, eHungary would not have become what it is now. And that is a true lesson, one that all small countries should keep in min😛 if you give up, you are over (the way of Ukrain for example, to become a vassal, a nothing). If you don't give up - you have chance. To choose the hard way, the one wrought with danger. Because only by taking risks can one achieve results!
Quicksilver
btw, hello Shadow Figure, long time, no see 🙂
Good too see you Quicksilver. I've been 2clicking for more than a year. This is a spark of activity, i hope there will be no fire 😛
How are you doing?
I am doing nothing, for I am banned permanently. Except some cheeky comments sometimes with this org. 🙂
I heard something about the ban 🙁 it was something totally unexpected (like the spanish inquisition, if you like monty python 🙂 Well, keep up those cheeky comments 😃
Good article!