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About Communism
Greetings fellow czechs,
First I would ask you all to read this article as neutral as possible and to not understand that as an agression in any way. Now let's get to the article.
Currently we have been facing a hard discussion about communism and dictature. I am a RL Brazilian, so my knowledge of Czech History is very limitated, what I know comes from History books which don't go deep in this subject.
What I can see arround here is that communism has been a very hard period for the country and that you have suffered a lot from it. In Brazil we also had a dictature that made us suffer a lot, and actually it was to prevent communism.
During the hottest moment of cold war (arround the 60's) we got a military dictature where generals and marshals ruled the country for over 20 years. Of course, in the name of democracy and freedom (specially freedom of the market). It was a move from CIA and from the USA government, to prevent the expansion of communism and left ideologies in Latin America (every country, except Cuba were under dictatures commanded by CIA, the famousest one was the Chili of Pinochet).
Therefore I know what you feel about dictatorship, it is basically the same repulsive feeling we got here in the South.
The same ideology that you praise, freemarket and the rest, was used to create a totalitarian government which persecuted and executed a lot of people here (some of them just 'disapeared' and never came back).
The point is, it is not a question of ideology, having a communist dictatorship doesn't mean that communism is bad, it just means that the people who got in the power were bad. Please, stop demonizing communism, the ideals behind it are actually good, equality and end of oppression. The way it was done was actually horrifing, but you shouldn't be comparing it to nazism, which was about 'cleaning' the world and killing people for the sake of 'white pure race'.
Being a communist isn't something wrong, what is wrong is torturing people, no matter the ideology.
Weinfass
This is the answer for the comment of Karel, but I think it can work as an answer for every one here who is criticizing my opinion:
"Maybe I couldn't express myself properly. What I mean is that we cannot communism as some kind of demon just because of the historical experience. The theory of communism is good, it is about giving freedom for people and giving them equal opportunuties. I understand that historically communism for Czechs means a hard moment for you, torture, deaths and all the things that make any human being feel sick about. But I believe that you should understand better what is the spirit of communism before demonizing it.
I am just asking for a little bit more of tolerance with communists."
By the way, thank you everyone who commented on this article, it is the best debate I ever had on eRepublik.
First I would ask you all to read this article as neutral as possible and to not understand that as an agression in any way. Now let's get to the article.
Currently we have been facing a hard discussion about communism and dictature. I am a RL Brazilian, so my knowledge of Czech History is very limitated, what I know comes from History books which don't go deep in this subject.
What I can see arround here is that communism has been a very hard period for the country and that you have suffered a lot from it. In Brazil we also had a dictature that made us suffer a lot, and actually it was to prevent communism.
During the hottest moment of cold war (arround the 60's) we got a military dictature where generals and marshals ruled the country for over 20 years. Of course, in the name of democracy and freedom (specially freedom of the market). It was a move from CIA and from the USA government, to prevent the expansion of communism and left ideologies in Latin America (every country, except Cuba were under dictatures commanded by CIA, the famousest one was the Chili of Pinochet).
Therefore I know what you feel about dictatorship, it is basically the same repulsive feeling we got here in the South.
The same ideology that you praise, freemarket and the rest, was used to create a totalitarian government which persecuted and executed a lot of people here (some of them just 'disapeared' and never came back).
The point is, it is not a question of ideology, having a communist dictatorship doesn't mean that communism is bad, it just means that the people who got in the power were bad. Please, stop demonizing communism, the ideals behind it are actually good, equality and end of oppression. The way it was done was actually horrifing, but you shouldn't be comparing it to nazism, which was about 'cleaning' the world and killing people for the sake of 'white pure race'.
Being a communist isn't something wrong, what is wrong is torturing people, no matter the ideology.
Weinfass
This is the answer for the comment of Karel, but I think it can work as an answer for every one here who is criticizing my opinion:
"Maybe I couldn't express myself properly. What I mean is that we cannot communism as some kind of demon just because of the historical experience. The theory of communism is good, it is about giving freedom for people and giving them equal opportunuties. I understand that historically communism for Czechs means a hard moment for you, torture, deaths and all the things that make any human being feel sick about. But I believe that you should understand better what is the spirit of communism before demonizing it.
I am just asking for a little bit more of tolerance with communists."
By the way, thank you everyone who commented on this article, it is the best debate I ever had on eRepublik.
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Finally words of reason! Great explanation, Weinfass.
It is true that CIA placed in almost every South American country their people, or native people that have been corrupted and accepted to rule their own country in name of ˝democracy˝, but in fact, they allowed to make their country US colony. Some of rulers there were ruthless fascists, appointed by ˝democracy˝ again. Many people who got in place of ruling their country and refused to cooperate with CIA were assassinated or removed by CIA inflicted coup.
And with such history, South America will never develop like western world, although they have plenty of resources needed to western world, who yet again emptied their own resources and using ˝free-market˝ to steal others resources. People really dont have in mind what free market means if they didnt experienced it in full scale
Lets remember United Fruit company. Perfect example of free-market efficiency. Lets remember Africa. How many raw materials there have? Enough to at least live decent, not like slaves of free-market. Africa is even simply banned to use electricity.
And then people here go against communism, without even investigation of facts around world, closed in their history and integrated belief that this stance will bring their country prosper. If you check your constitution and your laws, CZR doesnt even exist no more . Those are laws of european union, not yours
Plenty of things there are to be learned, but it is not much interesting as fighting communists
You are from Brazil dude??? damn, now i like you 1244124 times more!
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4E0UtxI7b0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4E0UtxI7[..]I7b0</a>
SEPULTURRRRRAAAA! :bowdown:
Mate, great article! Pure truth and facts without propaganda. Beer for Weinfass!
You're right. Your knowledhe about eastern europe during cold war is limited. And if you want to see how communism ends compare modern Cuba with modern Brasil or Chile. Today Cuba is totalitarian country with censorship work camps, secret police, and many other nice things while Brasil and Chile are both develepoing countries, Also Pinochet alowed re-institution of democracy in Chile when he lost referendum while Castro brothers never allowed anyone to even though about democracy in Cuba.
p.s. No ideas behind communism aren't good. For example work camps are in communism manifesto.
Weinfas is first man from "antiSvoboda" parties, who argues reasonably. Thanks for this article. It is good continuation of discuss in kuba's article.
Weinfass, you're wrong. Both nazism and communism were totalitarian, murderous and simply wrong regimes. There are many similarities between them, more than you can expect. After all nazism is national socialism and is not that far from international socialism (communism). In nazism the enemies were certain races (Jews, Slavs, in general subhumans). In communism the enemies are certain social classes (bourgeoisie, intelligentsia). Both nazism and communism didn't work out anywhere.
Weinfass, at the end just one question: do you know what was the largest concentration camp operating in Europe during the WW2? You might answer (as most of people) that it was a Nazi German concentration camp of Auschwitz. Well, not really. The biggest one was in Workuta, Soviet Union.
@peem10
Do you understand what we are talking about?
We are talking about deferences in style of management and ideas of social-economic structure. Yes, all knows that communist's regime of RL countries was bad in some aspects, but it was regime, not teory of comminism.
Nacizm has not something in common with Svoboda party and this conversation.
You confuse appointments of camps Auschwitz and Workuta. Auschwitz was created by germanian government to kill german citizens and some war enemies too. "Wokuta" camp was created as corrective-labour camp for soviet citizens and labour prison for war enemies.
Do you fell the diference between death-camp and corrective-labour-camp?
Spare me that lame commie propaganda, "bad in some aspects"? LOL. If something doesn't work anywhere, there's only one name to describe it - EPIC FAIL.
Nazism has much in common with communists and communism since it's socialism. I've already witten it before, haven't you noticed?
What is even more you don't even know basic knowledge about WW2 camps. Auschwitz was established in occupied Poland and was intended for the Poles, not Germans. Later it became a death camp for "subhumans", mostly Jews. So Workuta was a corrective-labour camp? Well, the Germans were saying exactly the same about Nazi camps. That's one more link between you and the Nazis.
You know what makes me sad?
Its the ability of the players to shit around whatever does not matter or has no relations to the game (game mechanics).
Left or right is the formality (it does not say that if you are right you can't make taxes lower, or if you are left you cant work for more than 5CZK a day).
Therefore what I see is just a fight of people that are differently educated on the matter.
What I dont see is a plan that will be better than Ruaidhri Garvey's long text. Something that will bring eCZ to better results, game ratings, more population, better savings.
Vit Ruzicka is not a bad guy or monster and Weinfass is definitely a good guy as well. But the ability to express their ideas and, that is more important, to bring real values for the country is doubtful.
Vit was the one of 5-7 Presidents who delivered zero monuments. And yet gets elected a President.
This has to be understood. This is something that is obvious, easy to see and judge. Something better than communism discussion.
***
Personal 5 cents:
Communism sucks big time. Sweden (which is said to be totally socialist in real life) is the most prosperous country in Europe from the people's protection and incomes prospects. You will never be able to be right or wrong in a dispute about ideaology
buch of useless pretty words
I will use the words of wise peem 10
Weinfass, you're wrong. Both nazism and communism were totalitarian, murderous and simply wrong regimes. There are many similarities between them, more than you can expect. After all nazism is national socialism and is not that far from international socialism (communism). In nazism the enemies were certain races (Jews, Slavs, in general subhumans). In communism the enemies are certain social classes (bourgeoisie, intelligentsia). Both nazism and communism didn't work out anywhere.
Weinfass, at the end just one question: do you know what was the largest concentration camp operating in Europe during the WW2? You might answer (as most of people) that it was a Nazi German concentration camp of Auschwitz. Well, not really. The biggest one was in Workuta, Soviet Union.
yes
Can we leave this matter for some other time?
We have plenty of work to do
VOTED!
souhlasím a hlasuji
I hope the words "having a communist dictatorship doesn't mean that communism is bad, it just means that the people who got in the power were bad. Please, stop demonizing communism" were meant as a joke.
Weinfass, maybe Im just one of many, but as I wrote in Your last article that you are slowly gaining my respect, now you gained my utmost disrespect. I will N E V E R, E V E R support anyone, who means the words quoted above as truth.
@Karel: Maybe I couldn't express myself properly. What I mean is that we cannot communism as some kind of demon just because of the historical experience. The theory of communism is good, it is about giving freedom for people and giving them equal opportunuties. I understand that historically communism for Czechs means a hard moment for you, torture, deaths and all the things that make any human being feel sick about. But I believe that you should understand better what is the spirit of communism before demonizing it.
I am just asking for a little bit more of tolerance with communists.
quote weinfass
@Weinfass: Communism is utopia. It just CANT work. Never ever. Simply because communism is assuming that people are altruists, not egoists. And thats just not true. Every one of us is an egoist inside (some are egoists even on the outside, some of us hide it inside). So later or earlier, things WILL go wrong. Everytime. And the world's communism just proves Im right.
You say its about giving equal opportunity to every person. That is exactly what I mean - its just utopia, because it wont work.
I can tolerate them as far as they wont get into my RL. And I will never support them even in eCZ or anywhere else. For me, its just laughing to face to millions of those who died for the idea of communism, often communists themselves, betrayed by their own "comrades" just to secure their place.
@Karel: "because communism is assuming that people are altruists, not egoists. And thats just not true. Every one of us is an egoist inside" - I totaly agree with you, I am not a communist myself because I have concience that it is not a perfect system. But I believe we should be open minded to discuss it and see what good it can offer to us.I don't believe that social welfare is something bad, and communism is also about it.
What I want to propose here is a discussion. I don't want everyone to accept communism as a good thing and start "spreading the word", this would be narrow mindness, and there are few things worse than narrow mindeness.
nice one.Its a good unbiaed article
@Mossad, Red Baxter
Good words! It is a pity that you wasn't heard here.
Weinfass you are normal person who doesn't love communism but respects is. I respect you by that. And this eCommunism is just different from old communism in RL.
Well said Weinfass! The USA and others certainly weren't angels in the past and still aren't (eg. afaik many of the bombs used by Israel to kill civilians were made in the USA). Other contemporary issues include eg. bank bailouts for people who are basically still doing the same and get millions of bonuses for it, or Iraq.
People all over the world have been killed in the name of god, one ideology or the other.
@peem10
I personally wouldn't call nazis socialists. Yes, they called themselves in the beginning national socialists (na-zi), but IMO it is important to know that before things started to be messed up within politics in 1933, "communists" were basically the only opposition to the NSDAP. For Hitler and Co. it was about gaining political power and control, especially pre-1933. Add to that the ill-perceived Versailles treaty (from the end of WWI in which Germany was on the losing side) and the global economic crisis (caused by "free-market" Wallstreet btw), and the NSDAP had the mix it needed to gain popular support.
In any case, the German facist regime certainly had many similarities with what is usually called communist regimes.
@Mossad/Deniz
You know what makes me sad? People who don't care about game rules/laws and then tell other people how to play the game...
@ DaLe Good point. Count votes.
You have said that "Communism is utopia. It just CANT work"
Well capitalism too. The actual international system is based on the utopia of the invinsible hand and the numerous and regular devastating crisis prooved that it doesn't work neither.
Furthermore if you count the victims of capitalism in the world since it is existing as it is today (let's say 1930) it will probably be way more than both nazism and stalinism, not because it's worst (it is as bad as the 2 others) just because it's more powerfull.
So you HAVE to change this system and to crush it, it is enslaving and sucking the blood of humanity and for me communism utopia is one (not the only one) alternative which could replace this umbereable totalitarism that we are living in.
You are absolutely right. Communists do not torture people. People torture people, no matter of ideology. The Christian inquisition is a good example - somebody tells somebody you are a heretic and you are screwed, they had their ways to make you say what they wanted to hear...
Máš pravdu. Komunisti nemučí lidi, lidi mučí lidi a ideologie je jen zástěrka. Např. církev svatá a inkvizice - někomu ses znelíbil, napráskal tě jako čaroděje či čarodějnici a byls v pr..., oni už z tebe přiznání dostali. A opovrhuje tu někdo církví svatou? Nevšiml jsem si.
VOTE & SUB
Down with communism! Both in RL and in eRep, you should not exist!