A call for forum change
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by Jamie2721
You're probably sick to death of this topic. I've spent more time reading articles and comments on articles about the subject of forum moderation. And it just goes round in circles.
But i still think there's questions to be answered. I won't mention names, because to be honest i don't know who exactly is in charge of what when it comes to moderation and i don't want to be unfair on anyone (but i am talking to the people who moderate it. Most roughly know who they are)
Another note, before i delve into it. I would probably be considered a 'moderate' in the sense i'm not trying to politically score points against anyone. Spent most of my time in TUP and would recommend it to new players, i've voted for Iain Keers twice and would consider maybe doing so in the future. And most importantly, i don't dislike any of the people that i'm probably going to argue against.
But on to topic. I feel the question "why do people get banned from using forums?" has never been answered.
I'll take Goku as an example. As i understand it, the reasons he was banned was for keeping 70 gold of UK's money which was entrusted to him (you could argue that's stealing) amongst other stuff that most of you's know. But so what? I don't think that justifies being banned from the forum. The forum is (or should be) about discussion, everyone has a right of reply and people can make up their mind with what they read. Banning someone does not protect any money. Nor, i argue eUK's interests.
I was going to add "I don't want to tell you how you run your forums, you's moderate it (which i accept is still needed) so ultimately it's your decision". But i think that's the problem. I've always viewed it as "your" forum and an opinion that differs from yours is not welcomed. And i don't think that's not just me being overly sensitive because usually i love debate.
Also, i wonder why topics or threads get closed and end try to attempt to end discussion on a topics when it suits them? If we compared that to real politics, you can't just decide when people stop discussing it. Why not just keep everything open?
My proposal would be only impose moderation powers when people use inappropriate or abusive (and i mean clearly abusive) language, and obviously inappropriate pictures and what not.
Do you think that proposal would unite eUK's political divide to talk about more constructive topics? Why, why not?
This also goes for the main eUK's irc chatrooms
Oh, and this was purely a personal view, nothing to do with my political party 😛
Thanks for reading,
Jamie2721
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Comments
first?
voted, I think you've been impressively neutral and reasoned in your views. Good article and interesting read, Jamie2721
Voted
interesting read, though, to be fair, the owners have the last say ultimately. If you dislike the way it is run, talk to them. go above the admins if you feel they are biased/close-minded.
Just my 2 pence (:
Oh, and voted
V
Make some good points, voted.
Goku was banned for multi's and leaking sensitive information, also I don't really see any topics locked at a whim unless they're flaming. But fair article, so voted!
Only place we can discuss these things are in game.
#euk topic gets locked buy the "mods" suppression at its best guys.
or we start a new forums and irc channel and advertise the hell out of that.
Some people will say that splits our country - but guess what it already is by those that lead it.
Like I said earlier - go to the top. What do you do with corporations? head to the CEO.
voted + S
The difference though is, a corporations aim is purely personal profit and attempts to deal with unsatisfied customers are only to help their image and keep customers coming back
The moderators aim is not selfish (at least i don't think so) and is to help eUK as a whole, so i think a public discussion is good
Indeed it is, but the discussions always end, or so it seems, in deadlock. Many members on one side even refuse to discuss with the forum team. The owners of the site are the ones with ultimate power, they decide on appeals. It is to them that one must seek change if all we get is deadlock. Personally, while I have seen some instances I would disagree with actions taken, on the whole they seem to be doing a thankless job well.
Goku was banned for multi-ing which is also a bannable offence in-game as well. He has been banned for other reasons as well though.
On a purely forum/IRC level, Goku made multiple accounts on both several times and used them to leak information and attack people. He likes to boast that he brought down BigAnt with his Ben3 account or something like that, and used "Daemon Blackfyre" as a multiple account with congress access.
I think he also got a lot of warnings for flaming and stuff, but you'd have to ask the admin/mods. I'm not sure, but I don't think anyone else is banned from either the forums or the eUK IRC channel.
I applied to join the mod team because I know the meaning of "moderation" and wanted to help.
You can rest assured that topics which still have the potential for further input don't (and won't, if I have anything to do with it) be closed unnecessarily and bans don't get (and again, won't be) dished out to active members of the community (but will to multis because they go against the spirit of community, thus Goku the rare case).
Things just aren't that bad, really, the guys are quite cool
Good article.
Lord Lewis Cromwell, here is a perfect example of a debate being locked for no apparent reason (other than it being quite persuasive argument against a moderators actions 😛) - http://forums.erepublik.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=84067
You think that topic didn't have the potential for further input?
Jamie, as an experiment why don't you post this article on the forum and see how long it takes the topic to get locked : )
The reason for that being locked, as far as I can tell, is that the owner of the IRC channel and owners of the forums decided that the topic was not open for discussion or debate, something I think an owner is entitled to do as the topic was to enforce something upon them.
It wasn't a moderation issue and it wouldn't be my place as a user of the tool that someone else pays for to argue against their wishes. Some things you just have to deal with, such is life!
As a former moderator of another eRep related forum, I agree with the previous comment that it is a thankless job. There will always be elements of the community that think you do too much and others who think you don't do enough. My opinion is, when a thread goes seriously off topic and/or devolves into a fight about personalities rather than the issue at hand, it makes sense to close it. That doesn't mean that open debate shouldn't be allowed, but it needs to be in an appropriate place.
That is funny if that's the case Lord Cromwell and makes the point you made in the previous comment entirely redundant.
And the most valid point stands, you can only discuss anything you want in-game or non 'official' forums/channels.
If you want to use thier forums and IRC channels then you have to accept the likelyhood of being banned if you offend their sensibilities.
If you don't like it then leave, lurk or start your own forums/channel and then they'll be no need for bans, locks or other warnings.
I agree 100% with Rory. LLC you can't say threads are open and won't be locked and then admit if the owners wanted them locked you have to do it... There was no flaming in that thread yet it got locked. The point of that thread was the unnecessary banning of a player and a good point was raised about double standards by another long time player.
I am tired of posting this:
I wasn't banned for taking 70g. I took 70g because I was banned (now paid back).
I wasn't banned for leaking sensitive information. I leaked sensitive information because I was banned.
They are liars for saying otherwise.
I was banned for mild critisism of the government and other random things like asking someone who owned a programming website he had linked - basically they just wanted to ban me and had no reason so made some up.
Lots of topics are locked on a whim to boost certain player's ego, here is one example:
http://forums.erepublik.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=182&t=81506
The flaming only started AFTER the lock.
I think the problem is one or two are too immature to be reasonable mods. Usually on good, well run forum sites mods need to give a reason in an admin section on how they came to conclusions - locking threads, warnings etc etc and if it is a poor decision its reversed. The eUK forums doesnt seem to have this common sense and just has mods backing mods whether they are right or wrong.
agreed , jamie, good article, I support idea. Anyway I think it's a lost battle. TUP gonna TUP.
I don't think Nick should have been banned, and he is unbanned now (see Rory's thread). The thread that Goku links to is 11 pages on "do you trust the police" which was locked after deviating to a discussion on levels of domestic violence in the USA, and the question in the poll had been answered, as evidenced by a post by a non-mod shortly before it ende😛
"The poll seems to suggest that people pretty overwhelmingly trust the police. Which would imply that the question has been answered."
What is wrong with a thread drifting to a slightly different topic? Why does it have to be locked?
No Goku you got banned because you were being rude/insulting in Public Discussion and racked up a whole load of warnings for it. We then made a deal that I'd unban you if you could behave and I was a saint and so fair and righteous etc. That is, until you managed to get banned again and I was suddenly a dictator :3
the TUP led establishment is the judge, jury and executioner when it comes to forum moding. They will issue bans and lock threads without a care for anything that doesn't involve their self-interest.
Forum Moderators are goldfish... seriously Frerk...
You guys banned me the last time because I said that the UK having 3 twitter accounts was a sign of bad ministers since they didn't pass on or retrieve the old ones. The post was deleted so I couldn't appeal.
Why do we not have a public justice system where all of this is recorded? You guys can just say anything you like.
Frerk, Could you possibly tell me why my thread about IRC rules and moderation got locked?
In the thread it says it is because the IRC channel is not related to the forums, and is just a popular private channel that has similar people running it.
I don't get why someone doesn't just make another national channel. Update the wiki and promote it, there is no reason why we can't have two, with different levels of moderation.
Perhaps call it #eUK.official 😛
I don't get why someone doesn't just make another national channel. Update the wiki and promote it, there is no reason why we can't have two, with different levels of moderation.
Perhaps call it #eUK.official 😛
2x
Danie Fox that is changed to suit them.
When they want to ban me from IRC, they say it's because of my forum ban. Forums & IRC are ran by the forum team!
http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/an-apology1-2155950/1/20
[20:50] Alice` It is run by the forum moderation team
When you want to discuss IRC on the forums, then it's nothing to do with the forums or the forum moderators!
http://forums.erepublik.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=84067&start=20#p1352135
Frerk: And you lot should stop whining about being banned from IRC. If you think it's abusive, go tell the IRCOPS.
This is what we fight against Danie. Why do you defend it?
They have made other national channels before they just don't work, much like the attempt to make a new forum. Unfortunatly it's only the minority who want such a degree of change, but no one is stopping anyone making a rival.
1) I did not lock the topic, Dan did(IIRC). He's dastardly so if he locks it without posting it looks like I did.
2) That's not why you were banned from the forums, if you honestly want to have this discussion then be honest about it.
3) If you want to make your own channel then please do so.
[removed]
Yes it is Frerk, I was banned for mildly critising the MoR. I did the leaking and impersonating AFTER the ban.
What was I banned for from your point of view? Why is there no publically viewable list of bans/warnings and reasons why?
Isn't it about time a hread was made in public sections which list all bans, infractions, warnings of who they were handed out to, why and who by?
A private channel can ban you for w/e, such as doing something wrong on the forums. If someone wants to make another channel then go for it, it probably won't be used much but you'd be free to impersonate and insult if you wanted - assuming the operators of the new channel didn't ban you for annoying them.
I think the idea of a thread with people who are banned or warned with reasons would definitely be at least a step forward
'In the thread it says it is because the IRC channel is not related to the forums'
I was always under the impression (and was told by certain people) that the forums and IRC were connected... Has the story changed to suit?
I think the idea of a thread with people who are banned or warned with reasons would definitely be at least a step forward x2
I think there were different stories put about by different people because there was no common policy. The thread with reasons seems like a reasonable idea..
Well I was told this by DanMoir himself...