Observations on the French Peace Negotiations
Day 659, 22:01
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Published in Canada 
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by
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by Jacobi
Canadians Can Find Fight Orders Here
Observations on the French Peace Negotiations
*disclaimer: these are not facts, but opinions and observations. Well, the opinions and observations of an extremely informed source but still. I'm not saying any of these things are correct, just that I think they are.
1. The French Administration is sincere in their desire for peace.
In contrast to the previous administrations’ “take it or leave it” hardline approach to peace, the new administration seems much more interested. Even their Minister of Finance, by his own admission no fan of peace, could still the potential in ending French war involvement. It was a complete attitude change, and I felt very good about that.
2. Reparations will likely not be necessary to close the war.
Another contrast to the previous administration, the notion of ending the war without tribute seems to be a much more likely scenario. The major stumbling block now is appeasing the French Congress, which is much more bellicose.
3. Baubles and trinkets
The French administration needs something shiny to give to their Congress to make this work. We’ve thrown a few bones (which really, we were more than happy to throw) but it remains to be seen if that will be enough.
Of those baubles and trinkets, two interesting conditions came out. I stress that these are not final conditions nor even conditions that were formally presented, just ideas that were bandied about.
a) Canada loans France gold
France lost thousands of gold gaining and losing an empire, and now have to contend with 10,000 new players on top of an economy built for 4k. Their need for gold is understandable, and the concept of Canada loaning France gold is a great way to begin a friendship.
b) Canada provides income tax rebates to French land companies operating in Canada
This is a fair bit more complicated an idea, and it remains to be seen if an equitable way of doing this could even be contractually implemented. Basically the jist of the idea is that we provide tax rebates to the French government for French companies that employ Canadian land workers. On the surface, it certainly looks like something the French Congress could sink its teeth into, its certainly a good thing for French business. But let’s peer a bit deeper.
What would this mean? It would mean that Canada would be bringing in more investment into our land industries (rea
The most difficult aspect of this deal would be in its implementation, which on the face of it would require consistent cooperation between the French and Canadian Finance ministries (something the Canadian Congress has rightly pointed out) and a fairly good script to compile data automatically (something the French MoF has pointed out).
Now, I’d like to make two interesting points about this sort of condition.
1. I really like this concept, if its feasible to execute. In fact, reciprocal agreements between Canada and her other allies I would find really helpful in deepening our economic relations and increasing resource production efficiency. Having Canada be the one stop shop for France, EDEN, the US, etc for diamonds would have a tremendous impact on the Canadian economy.
2. By allowing France preferential access to our land base resources we make it easier for them to wean themselves of PEACE economic dependency.
This leads me to my last point:
4. We are in this for the same reason.
Let’s not kid ourselves. Canada doesn’t “need” to end the war. France doesn’t “need” to end the war. It might be nice for our companies with French licenses to sell to France again, it might be nice for our border to be completely secure, but since neither side has activated MPPs and neither side wishes to risk activated MPPs we could both continue living with this open war without major fear that one would attack the other unless one country is forced to “carry the idiot ball.”
So why do I want this, and why do I think the French Administration wants this? Because France is tired of PEACE and Canada is tired of France in PEACE. Peace with Canada, economic ties with Canada, all lead to making the road out of peace easier for France. We are the gateway for them to EDEN, and if they feel they can count on our good faith to have their back if they go indie (both on the map and in EDEN) we are making the choice that much simpler to make.
If we continue to be stubborn, obstinate, and have an open war, France would be completely insane to leave the alliance that keeps us from having our revenge.
I’ll leave with one final observation.
France was promised the riches of the sea and earth, a new Francophone Union and the resources of two countries by its erstwhile allies. Subsequently, all of these promises evaporated into thin air and they lost everything they had going for them. Now a new administration, dealing with the problems inherent to a massive babyboom and the legacy of failure of the old administration need to find a way to restore French pride and French security. For thousands of gold spent, and a bankrupted nation now cast as a villain in half the word, the French administration wants to be able to hold its head up high to its Congress and People to score something out of this clusterduck. (yes, clusterduck).
And we, in Canada have to make a choice.
We can help France, because that’s what they’re really asking us to do…..
….or not.
Observations on the French Peace Negotiations
*disclaimer: these are not facts, but opinions and observations. Well, the opinions and observations of an extremely informed source but still. I'm not saying any of these things are correct, just that I think they are.
1. The French Administration is sincere in their desire for peace.
In contrast to the previous administrations’ “take it or leave it” hardline approach to peace, the new administration seems much more interested. Even their Minister of Finance, by his own admission no fan of peace, could still the potential in ending French war involvement. It was a complete attitude change, and I felt very good about that.
2. Reparations will likely not be necessary to close the war.
Another contrast to the previous administration, the notion of ending the war without tribute seems to be a much more likely scenario. The major stumbling block now is appeasing the French Congress, which is much more bellicose.
3. Baubles and trinkets
The French administration needs something shiny to give to their Congress to make this work. We’ve thrown a few bones (which really, we were more than happy to throw) but it remains to be seen if that will be enough.
Of those baubles and trinkets, two interesting conditions came out. I stress that these are not final conditions nor even conditions that were formally presented, just ideas that were bandied about.
a) Canada loans France gold
France lost thousands of gold gaining and losing an empire, and now have to contend with 10,000 new players on top of an economy built for 4k. Their need for gold is understandable, and the concept of Canada loaning France gold is a great way to begin a friendship.
b) Canada provides income tax rebates to French land companies operating in Canada
This is a fair bit more complicated an idea, and it remains to be seen if an equitable way of doing this could even be contractually implemented. Basically the jist of the idea is that we provide tax rebates to the French government for French companies that employ Canadian land workers. On the surface, it certainly looks like something the French Congress could sink its teeth into, its certainly a good thing for French business. But let’s peer a bit deeper.
What would this mean? It would mean that Canada would be bringing in more investment into our land industries (rea
😛diamonds, France has no need for anything else) which would mean a more competitive labor pool which would mean higher wages for Canadians. For an extremely limited cost, France would be investing in Canada and increasing our economic ties, making any future conflict prohibitively expensive.
The most difficult aspect of this deal would be in its implementation, which on the face of it would require consistent cooperation between the French and Canadian Finance ministries (something the Canadian Congress has rightly pointed out) and a fairly good script to compile data automatically (something the French MoF has pointed out).
Now, I’d like to make two interesting points about this sort of condition.
1. I really like this concept, if its feasible to execute. In fact, reciprocal agreements between Canada and her other allies I would find really helpful in deepening our economic relations and increasing resource production efficiency. Having Canada be the one stop shop for France, EDEN, the US, etc for diamonds would have a tremendous impact on the Canadian economy.
2. By allowing France preferential access to our land base resources we make it easier for them to wean themselves of PEACE economic dependency.
This leads me to my last point:
4. We are in this for the same reason.
Let’s not kid ourselves. Canada doesn’t “need” to end the war. France doesn’t “need” to end the war. It might be nice for our companies with French licenses to sell to France again, it might be nice for our border to be completely secure, but since neither side has activated MPPs and neither side wishes to risk activated MPPs we could both continue living with this open war without major fear that one would attack the other unless one country is forced to “carry the idiot ball.”
So why do I want this, and why do I think the French Administration wants this? Because France is tired of PEACE and Canada is tired of France in PEACE. Peace with Canada, economic ties with Canada, all lead to making the road out of peace easier for France. We are the gateway for them to EDEN, and if they feel they can count on our good faith to have their back if they go indie (both on the map and in EDEN) we are making the choice that much simpler to make.
If we continue to be stubborn, obstinate, and have an open war, France would be completely insane to leave the alliance that keeps us from having our revenge.
I’ll leave with one final observation.
France was promised the riches of the sea and earth, a new Francophone Union and the resources of two countries by its erstwhile allies. Subsequently, all of these promises evaporated into thin air and they lost everything they had going for them. Now a new administration, dealing with the problems inherent to a massive babyboom and the legacy of failure of the old administration need to find a way to restore French pride and French security. For thousands of gold spent, and a bankrupted nation now cast as a villain in half the word, the French administration wants to be able to hold its head up high to its Congress and People to score something out of this clusterduck. (yes, clusterduck).
And we, in Canada have to make a choice.
We can help France, because that’s what they’re really asking us to do…..
….or not.
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hmmm ....
Panda have his own opinions but i would rather not say it here 😮
Just remember that France gave us no mercy when we didn't have the upper hand
But a new future, that's a thing to look into
Interest insight. Applaud the approach.
... and that's why he's PM,
You're advocating taking a very calculated risk. While I am unsure of eFrance's desire to weaken ties to PEACE, the concessions by eCanada proposed here seem to be relatively minor inconveniences, making it a small investment for a high potential reward, much like playing the lottery. Only, in this case, the chance of reward is probably higher.
First of all, you need to get the High Diamond areas first, before you can even think about trading them Diamonds.
I am not sure I like the Idea of giving them gold, yes they just lost everything that was promised to them, Why? Because we kicked them out of OUR country. and now we have to pay their expenses??? You state "We’ve thrown a few bones", How many Bones are we talking here?
I understand where you are going with this, you want to ween them off of PEACE, and welcome them to EDEN. But is it that simple??? I don't think so. Many of the their players still have PEACE GC on their brain.
I am glad negotiations are taking place, that is good, and I want to settle things with France too, do not get me wrong. But it just does not seem right for us to give them gold....Let me ask you this,
Is this a Loan??
I am not sure how the whole "Canada provides income tax rebates to French land companies operating in Canada" will work, but perhaps that might be a good thing.
One more comment: The income tax rebate, whether you like the idea or not, shows creative thinking on the part of the eCanadian government. Well done!
You get an extra gold star for creativity!
*sticks it to the report*
This plan is unacceptable; you are penalising Canadian companies with the preferential treatment of France and peace with France on these terms is tantamount to surrender. The conditions should be very clear to a country that caused hundreds of thousands of dollars in damage to our economy,
Let’s not sugar coat it ok, if we agree to these terms it is a slap in the face of every Canadian that sacrificed everything against this country that now seeks to rape our treasury and screw Canadian business, forget it!
France is on her knees attempting to save face with her citizens and openly looking for bribes to end this war on her terms, I think not.
This is nothing short of selling out Canada to appease a treaty with an enemy, our allies deserve better treatment for the thousands of gold they have spent defending and retaking our territory and France must pay for her crimes, period!
You are not clearly thinking this through and I am offended of behalf of our allies at the proposed treatment we may give France.
To hell with Peace GC and to hell with any favoured treatment of France.
The government had better get its head out of its ass, if anything no conditions on any peace agreement, they either sign or live with the future consequences, Europeans will not be as forgiving or charitable as we here in Canada, and it will be a cold day in hell before I defend France form anyone, and believe it, I am not alone in feeling this way.
Asides from that Mr president, kudos on the updates!
The idea of trade arrangements/tax rebates - essentially a "most favoured nation" status has much merit - granted it presupposes the return of our high diamond regions - something that we maybe able to negotiate our way to with one of the current occupiers - the other I expect that we will need to escort to the door forcibly.
A loan of significant amounts of gold to eFrance on the other hand. It was not only eFrance that expended sizable amounts of gold - we have much infrastructure to rebuild - destroyed by eFrance. Vast amounts of personal wealth were consumed - and that is unlikely to recovered. Considerable expenditures were made by the gov't for weapons, attacks etc etc.
I think that before we go loaning gold to eFrance we need to address our own infrastructure needs plus ensure sufficient funding in reserve for the CAF so that widespread weapon supply is a reality and not just an unfulfilled request. No point in repeating the mistake of an un-prepared and ill funded military.
While eFrance may tire of conflict - it does not appear that the true powers behind PEACE are done yet with their dreams of worldwide domination. So Budapest and Jakarta, having used up (possibly used up) eFrance's tolerance for being the front man will simply cast about for some other nation to carry their water - didn't take them too terribly long to bring eColumbia and eMexico to the dark side.
My opinion in summary - trade arrangements fine, large gold loans - only after our immediate infrastructure needs and long term security needs are addressed.
I am enthusiastic about this. Given the strength of the eRepublik admins to insure contract fulfillment, I think a loan is a lot safer bet then in the real world, and very different to simply giving them money, as it might in effect be here.
The idea of the income tax rebates has some fantastic merits that have already been discussed, but I want to add that doing this now would give the French government and people a vested interest in helping Canada take its lands back from Iran and Hungary.
I am somewhat concerned about the impact such a tax offer would have on Canadian companies - you say that wages will increase, which is great, but won't that mean decreased profit for Canadian Managers?
Also, would the rebates be given to the French General Managers, or to the french government? The former seems preferable to me.
If you work out the tax rebates then it would be great.
@alaricus T'would be a loan, and you're correct. France has no real interest besides diamonds so I doubt this tax rebate program would even go into effect until we liberated a high diamond region, though I suspect that to be soon.
@riffwire
1. Sweden loaned us gold and a free hospital. Let me assure you that they did not surrender to us in doing so.
2. You're right, we are penalizing Canadian companies exporting diamonds to france. I'm not completely concerned.
3. I'll take it your on the side of telling France where to go. You are not alone.
4. Thanks, trying to do more updates.
@Disraeli The amount of gold we've been talking about in negotiations is large only when thought of in an immediate time frame. Over the course of four months (which is the proposed contract term for the loan) its not that big a deal. I would go so far as to say that the amount is more symbolic in terms of the actual amount, but I really don't know how bad the French economy is.
I can talk about infrastructure by the way. I've completely soured on hte concept of Defense systems. They are a deterrent and a novelty only, in an actual battle they literally do us no good. I consider them a complete waste of money and it'll be a cold day in hell when Canada buys one without a rules change.
I see 3 hospitals in the future for Canada. The next one placed in Quebec, the one after in Ontario, and with Canada always having one in reserve. I think any more than three is gluttonous, especially since any enemy who has sufficient strength to plough through our MPPs will justlay waste to those hospital regions anyway.
@ Leps Dessim, company owners have enjoyed under my administration ridiculously low taxes in VAT and income as well as fairly protectionist import taxes. We as a government gear the economy in general towards business survivability, so it would surprise me if higher wages had a major detrimental effect on Canadian producers considering the other advantages they have.
And you make a great point. With the tax rebate, France would have no strategic desire to help defend Hungarian or Iranian holdings.
nice initiative Jacobi, the future look bright on these new terms, And one more question, if we we're to loan the money, I assume there would be some fee to it, right?
Loans: Shoot, sign a peace treaty with France and give ME a loan and tax rebates. I'll invest in France and employ the n00bs. That would do more for Canadian security and economic ties in the long run than giving loans.
Tax rebate: I'm not sure that we need more companies in Canada right now, to be honest, and I don't see how that helps THEIR employment situation. Points for creativity, though.
As for diamonds, let's not be too silly: eSouth Africa is a diamonds free trade zone. Subsidize export licenses (5-10gold) for Canadian companies so they can buy French licenses, if you really want Canadian diamonds on the French market. Or work out a landswap so they hold the High diamond regions for a few days, and the diamond companies will buy the 5g license themselves.
...Fine work, though. Don't mean to be negative.
Your negotiations sound promising.
sounds like a positive move forward that does not involve more fighting.
i was quite worried about the loan until i read somebody else's comment about the admins enforcing contracts. if thats the case i'm all for it! (assuming there is a reasonable interest rate)
i agree with john tho. if they want to have preferential treatment i'd like to see diamond company export licenses subsidised (half by us half by them) and their country better damn well have a low import tarrif too.
does not solve their pending employment problem. but the market will infact take care of that. too many workers = low wages which = high profit which = me starting at least one company there and many others doing the same!
too much government intervention in business is a bad thing!
Slave
So let me try and understand this.
They have a huge baby boom of new players who need work and infrastructure improvements.
We have a shortage of qualified players to work for our companies and wages that are already rising.
The solution to this is to pay french players to build businesses in Canada???
I'm sure glad I decided to have a business in eCanada and use my money to rescue dying players to work for me. I really don't know why I bothered to fight for this country when the leadership is so desperate to give it away again.
Thank you for getting back to me Jacobi. I am glad it is loan, because we would be getting the gold down the road. If it wasn't a loan, it is basically paying off France for a peace treaty.
I'm adopting a wait & see attitude on the Tax rebate situation. I need to know more details before I can really judge that.
Regarding your hospital comment, I recently did an article regarding Health care in eCanada,
http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/-privatized-healthcare-in-canada--932466/1/20" target="_blank">http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/-pri[..]/1/20
@ Johnny Cannuck, hey be a man.
Do not go and say things like that. You fight for this country because you love it, regardless of current leadership. Those n00bs you rescued probably appreciate the help you gave them, and regardless of who is in charge of eCanada.
@Johnny Canuck
Personally I hire new players so that I can foster good habits and get them active in the game 🙂
I think this reconciliation a la the Marshall Plan will be much better in the long run than the punitive Versailles-type conditions some people want. And only want; France may be bruised but they have no incentive to accept bad terms.
The tax rebate: Genius! The loan: A little worrisome but if enforced it should be all right.
I do not like giving them tax rebates. Rewarding an invader for their invasion is an invitation to the whole world to send their armies to see what kind of deal they can get. If their economy is suffering, well, it's a price of war they need to learn about.
France is not ready to make peace with us. Some face-saving deal where their politicians get to claim that they gained something from their invasion of us is not in our interest, or theirs ultimately. This deal sounds more like appeasement than peace.
Jacobi, I am going to make this short.
How can we be certain France will pay this "loan" back? is it not possable they are simply using the premis of a "loan" to goat us into giving them gold with no intention of paying it back?
I am really happy to read this.
As some of you already know, I am the new french MoFA and we discussed quite a while on our IRC yesterday with Jacobi, Eldorino and marcchelala on the canadian side, Yann Grapin, our president, Potier, our ambassador to Canada, Ginman, our Misniter of Economy and myself in order to start new kind of relationship between us.
We are all tired of this war, at least I hope that the majority of us is.
As Jacobi sai😛 "Canada doesn’t “need” to end the war. France doesn’t “need” to end the war." That Erepublik's gameplay (too expensive to open a new war especially), and the Alliances consequences.
But enough of this. Geopolitics must change if we don't want to get bored of this game.
And those negociations are just a beginning, something to discuss in our Congress. We can't sign peace in a day or two after such a long war.
We need canadian Congress to dicuss of it, and we need our Congress too. So we will find the best way to begin something good for both of us.
I must disagree with one important thing: "France is tired of PEACE and Canada is tired of France in PEACE."
No we are not tired of PEACE. PEACE is a part of us, without PEACE, we probably won't be a country. Our debt to PEACE is huge. But that is true that many french got tired of the imperialist move of PEACE, a defensive alliance.
And France wants to see further now, but we will still be PEACE's friends.
I wish things will evolve in a good way for both of us now, and that we can become good partners or even more.
Discussions will continue, maybe on your IRC channel next time 😁.
PS: I forgot most of my english in the last four months, so please forgive my mistakes 😉
John A MacDonal😛 with a good contract I think there will be no problem about it 😉
And we need to trust each other if we want to start all over.
Great!
I think we should eliminate import taxes from the US rather than some scheme with France.
The US has been a good ally, and some kind of free trading agreement would reflect our RL relationship, and make both eEconomies stronger.
I'm completely against this for reasons explained on the forum.
John A Matheson.
This idea was conjured up by the French Minister of Finance. It is so awesomely good that I intend to bring it up with America and see if we can get something reciprocal going on (if it turns out to be feasible, since it requires work and a script that as of yet does not exist)
Jacobi does it again!
This is a greatest triumph of our diplomatic history!
Peace with France! PEACE without France!
On the other hand, just as I said on the forum and IRC, I wouldn't mind making the only condition of the peace treaty that we build them a Q5 hospital or defence system and later on they build one in Québec for us in return. The other points you suggested I wouldn't like as conditions but rather as prospect for the future if they were to accept a white peace with us.
Why are we giving anything? I'm not a fan of what i've heard so far. We've lost thounsands in infrastructure and we're lending France money? We're helping THEIR economy at the risk of hurting OUR businesses? I sincerely hope we rethink this strategy.
Do I want peace with France? Absolutely, but I definitely don't think we need to make any concessions whatsoever.
How about helping Canadians employ Canadians?! -- been working my A** off like many others to just get into a position where I can open a company after spending gold to defend it -- screw French pride and screw ***REWARDING*** a PEACE terrorist nation that mercilessly wiped us off the map -- Hey eWorld come and try and wipe us off the map - even if you fail, it'll still be a good deal for ya with our help
France came in and took our county. We kicked them out, and now are they are looking to suck on our tit for a while. Com'on, what kind of a negotiator are you? Not all french sing the same tune.
Dont get me wrong - i like your ideas, but you're missing a critical step;
FIRST STEP: France ends alliances, becomes neutral. This opens their trade borders. This should be a non-negotiable first step that France must take as a sign of good faith.
SECOND STEP: Only after France does Step 1, should Canada, or other countries, sit down at the table and offer help.
'2. Reparations will likely not be necessary to close the war.
Another contrast to the previous administration, the notion of ending the war without tribute seems to be a much more likely scenario. The major stumbling block now is appeasing the French Congress, which is much more bellicose.'
why doesn't france have to pay us reparations?
WTF are you giving France anything? They should loan us money and give US tax rebates.
They lost in the end, its like the Allies lending the Nazis money at the end of WW2. We should do what good old Ike and Churchill did and string up as many French leaders as possible.
But not french translation..? 😮 !
Nargoziath.. 😮)
Ya I say we give France nothing and send in our economic warfare team to F%$& them up extra bad while their economy is already bad. When they've had enough they can tap out declare neutrality and eventually peace with us.
the fact that they consider PEACE to still be good friends (according to their minister of finance's post above) is probably the most unsettling of it all. If they are so tired of PEACE Jacobi then why is he saying this here. and what happens when the next pro-PEACE french administration comes in?
Also i don't see how giving them access to our diamonds will be beneficial to there economy in terms of jobs. It would make more sense to invest gold in opening canadian companies in France would it not? Then if they declare war close them down on them while enforcing a contract that would have them repay canada for the gold cost to start up those companies.
"They lost in the end, its like the Allies lending the Nazis money at the end of WW2. We should do what good old Ike and Churchill did and string up as many French leaders as possible."
* * *
We did. Billions. Not to the nazis - as we had just beat them, and their leaders had committed suicide.
How do you think Germany was reconstructed, bratwurst sales?
Moving on...
eFrance didn't want peace when we were asking for it - before the war. Why should we extend the favour to them now that eCanada and eSpain have shown that eFrance can be beaten - and hard?
eFrance gleefully swept thru eCanada and eSpain (with Hun/Indo tanks) without remorse.
eFrance was the whore of PEACE - it is time to flip that ole girl over and give it to her just as hard.
Oh, we destroyed a couple of hospitals during previous (lame) attacks upon eFrance? Aww... They wiped us out.
It is time to return the favour, then sell them the hospitals and DS' when it's over.
Thats my opinion.
This war...has only just begun.
We shouldn't strengthen the French by loaning them gold. It's their fault they wasted their own money trying to create an empire.
Lets face it, this a primarily a war game right now, peace isn't going to happen - lets worry about helping only true and proven allies like the US, Spain, Greece and get all of NA liberated and then take the fight to PEACE
I don't understand how you can actually use the word "appeasement" in a positive manner. You never, never reward bad behaviour - you punish it.
"Canada loans France gold"
wow, giving the enemy our money....
is that hat squeezing your head a bit too tightly?
I support the idea of treaty with france.. I applaude the creative ways of creating incentives but don't necessarily believe they are the correct method of dealing with this situation...
Loans =good (easy to do, easy to monitor, long term benefit)
Tax Breaks =bad (complicated, possible negative to canadian businesses, questionable long term benefit)
Its time to start looking at Canada's role in a post War World and extending an olive branch to France is the right thing to do, It is the Canadian thing to do.....
This smells fishy to me. I don't trust their motivations at all. I'm not a proponent for kicking a man when he's down, but do we really have to give them a hand up (A hand with 10,000 gold to boot)?
Some people say this is a war game, nothing but a war game and so they want war and more of it (sound repetitive?). It's obvious that it takes more than Gold and Guns to stay afloat in the New World. I think Jacobi is making a good move by quelling one front while we deal with another.
So if we don't lend a hand to France to better relations, what's the best alternative? A stalemate until the next great conflict? Or do we build up that Canadian Empire and conquer them (sound repetitive?).
I doubt our govt. is going to sell out our economy to the enemy so let's see what they can accomplish before we cut down yet another plan.
@Tyler: Once again they didn't give money to the Nazis... they strung up their leaders and installed their own pro-Allied government, which is what i support, so I don't understand the point that you didn't make just there...
@Everyone else: Kow towing to France while they still claim to be strong supporters (and indebted) to PEACE would rank among one of the stupidest things Jacobi has done yet, right after letting Dean22 back in Canada (then firing him when he stole money again) and letting Canada get conquered by France.