Join the new world

o7. Amen. Hallelujah. Preach it, preacher. WOOOOOHOOOOO!

hmmm, tax reduction to 1% would be fine...but I think it should be debated, since many people want a steady inflow of money for government.

Congress shoulda been pointed to an article debate on it really. Often very few people get involved on tax debates because they aren't sure about economics. Hopefully the speaker will pick up on that and if it is voted down it can be re proposed once people feel like they are making an informed decision

Was my understanding that the financial whizzkids from the executive branch were pro 2% and advocated as such.

Some financial whizz kids from the legislative branch may not have been convinced 😛

or they are operating with more information and the drive to make RM production worthless and force people into similarly affected programs like MU's and NHS is part of a wider plan?

Now that is some conspiracy theory!

As far as I am aware, Argofookyourself was against a decrease in Work Tax because he spent the previous 3 months or so arguing to get it increased to 2% and did not want to see things reversed so quickly.

I trust his wisdom was correct before to make the increase, but I believe circumstances have changed now to warrant a decrease again. Argo seems like he's a bit 'pot committed' and needs to be more open to shifting conditions.

On the plus side - Knowing whats coming means I can make a killing on the markets tonite 😃

Did anyone bother to track the change in income this tax increase produced?

The MoF should have some figures on this, if they don't sack them.

Is Dorothy a multi account?

yes, a two multi account

a fuckin hawt multi account

We allow hot Ginger multies in UK

Personally I voted in favor of the reduction.

Other reasons for Work Tax to be reduced in addition to the points raised in this article.

1. We were making all MPP commitments and obligations on 1% Work Tax

2. We need money for CO's and to replace Bad Loans for Training Ground Upgrades. We currently have a sizable reserve for this purpose.

3. There are NO plans for any extra schemes or spending, therefore having a surplus is pointless.

4. We have been stung numerous times through thefts, having a large treasury will increase the temptation to sting us again.

5. MoF has NO plans for MM Fishing, again meaning a large treasury is not needed.

6. MoF has requested a reduction in MPP's from a current 13 to 10. This would naturally reduce our bills for the month meaning a reduction in Work Tax will have a mitigated affect.

number 5 just means we have an appalling MoF. That should be their first job in a morning!

Its more the potential profit form the entire treasury, providing it cashes out every time is incredibly small.

[removed]

if you are thinking of selling gold @ ~198CC then buying gold @192CC it's not worth the trouble unless you can move over 500.000 gold. If you mean that you can sell @ aprox. 195 then sell CC @0.06 (166/G) you are dreaming. Since every country uses the same currency there is no point in buying CC over simply selling gold for much more CC

Well we would have been able to move over a lot more gold if BA didn't steal it, which you and your pals got into power.

Oh wait, I'm kicking a dead horse here.

Posted this in the congress threa😛

I still don't want to change without reliable tax data. Income's been erratic with the wipe and occupation so I'd like to know what we're dealing with before we change things. I'd like to stress I'm not against changing to 1%, but I am against changing it before we actually know what we're doing. I trust data over so-called 'financial whizz-kid' guesswork... I'm sure you'd expect nothing less from a BSc!

They'll always be a degree of error as the game does not provide that much data and you have to extrapolate it from either tracking or introducing known variables.

I'm saying that tomorrow the cost of one WAM will be £1.94 but that figure could be out by as much as 10pence as I have to assume the number of workers is somewhat fixed (when its probably decreasing)

£2.00 today so i was a wee bit out.

It would be great to actually be included in the congress discussion for this so i could address each point with congress members, but anyhow, reasons for keeping the tax at the 2% level.

At 1% we were able to meet our MPP commitments month by month, and that was absolutely it. No spending on CO's if there is a conflict and no money for any other use at all. I produced some figures for congress a while back, i don't have them to hand but it indicated the majority of our tax take is form the work tax, dropping it would by the looks of it to not far of half plus 1k per day. This is likely to have changed slightly given the rise in wages which increases the amount of work tax per click.

This basically means on a normal month we will break even, and on a bad month we will make a loss... which shows why having a surplus is necessary.

RE schemes and spending. I'm not going to promise a spending scheme till i know how we are looking financially for the month. As we get further along, we will have an idea of how much we have to play with and appropriate grant or spending schemes can be decided, with congresses input if they want.

If anyone wants to study the figures, I will see if i can find previous few months tax take figures and provide them for you to have a look at and discuss.

If it stays at 2% then by the start of next week NO RM company will be profitable to WAM in.

Only insane people wanting to lose money would employ workers in them or continue to WAM them at a loss.

So you've now lost all the worktax you were making from RM WAMers and these are the people that were paying 70p per multiple WAMs not too long ago compared to your average worker paying the same for 1x work and your min wage commune worker who was paying next to nothing.

So your 'majority of tax intake' now consists of about £275 per day from regular workers and those that have Q7 Tank plants or Q5 food factories who are willing to pay £4 to £5 per WAM.

I wouldn't say WRM prices are in free fall, they have spent a long time at 0.03 in the past and only raised to 0.04 for a relatively short term, they have in fact been at a steady 0.03 for the majority of the time I've played the game.

The majority of workers aren't paying that amount, substantially less, i don't know how many factories people have on average, but nowhere near enough to generate that sort of money.

http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/-moti-the-fallacy-of-2-more-money-2423478/1/20

wrm has been at 0.4 for far longer than 0.3, i should know with the amont i have to buy every day.

So of course you have figures on the extra income this 2% tax has produced to back up your point...

Oh...

If you want the figures, i will see if i can condense them from multiple months Gdocs for you by the end of the day.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1J6wAnJurO2cmt8kTt4BJC5FAcI8jvuD-tC15slvUf1A/edit?usp=sharing there you go.

So 1% extra tax is worth 2000 GBP a day.
That is 60,000 GBP a month or 6 MPPs.

This is looking at the average of the recorded figures for 1%, 2% and 3% while removing data for foreign regions and days we didn't have all of our regions together.

This is some pretty basic analysis and I'm shocked that the MoF is incapable of dong this itself.

And thanks I guess for the figures 🙂

I did that for you before I went to work... Which is why it's breif.
I had produced the figures for congress in previous terms that predicted it correctly. The issue we have at the moment is an uncontrollable rise in average wage, despite markets offering jobs at 35-40cc it's risen to over 100 cc causing a spike in work tax, there is no logical reason for this rise and it simply suggests someone with a vested interest in lower rates is likely manipulating the rates.
If anyone from congress wishes to discuss this I will make myself available on irc tonight

Someone who wants lower tax is increasing the wages to make the higher tax rase more? what

Someone who wants lower taxes to increase their profit, increases wages significantly to one person who pays back the money each day. this artificially raises the average wage to 100cc as it is meaning that the average citizen is unable to sustain that level of outlay, this forces the government and congresses hand in lowering rates. This will in turn halve the cost of their production for the future.

Its not a hard concept and after thinking about it I'm surprised it hasn't been used as a weapon before.

Who is doing this lol?

I wonder if you are talking about Alfagrem, he has paid us 100cc for a few months now and I assure you I keep all 100 🙂

Well... 98, thanks gubberment. Gotta pay that 2 GBP treasury theft fund.

That is a dastardly plan, but surely even if someone was spiteful enough to do that they'd still lose a huge chunk of money as Tax which effectively spites themselves.

Sure they would lose a chunk to tax, however it would cut the costs of production by half, which dependent on the amount of factories they work, could be beneficial. If you could explain any other reason for wages raising so far above market rates I'm all ears.

Well, I can confirm that Alfa has 'fair-wage program' that pays UKPP'ers £100. However, it can't be just that if Wages have gone above that £100 benchmark.

I definitely think some numb-nut out there is paying huge salaries, but I just have a doubt anyone is that evil to spite the whole country for personal gain.

If Argo's theory is correct then we're talking about a rise in the average wage of £75 per worker over 30 days.

So 75x400(guestimate) = DW = 30,000
& DW x 30 = 900,000.

So if a singular wage of 900K was paid then the gov would of earned £18,000 extra cash.

Since the price drop to 0.03 they've earnt £34,000

so the DWx30 is now 1.7Million which when divide by the rise (75) means we actually have 755 workers in the UK.

I would guess that someone paid their main account a massive amount of money to work being employed by their multi account, to try to transfer money undetected.

Money is one of the main ways multies are found.

>"Sure they would lose a chunk to tax, however it would cut the costs of production by half, which dependent on the amount of factories they work, could be beneficial."

That makes no sense.

I have 4 fully WAM'd Q7 tanks plants so that's 356 which at pre-rise prices = £249.2 per day @0.02

So I decide I only want to pay £125 a day and figure the best way to do that is to spike the daily wage.

I therefore arrange a one-off wage of some 900K.

I've now paid £18,000 in tax from that wage.

So I've now pushed my own WAM tax up to £700 for a month but if my dastardly plan comes true that'll only be £350 for 30ish days (which is still above my previous distasteful WAM level)

At the end of 30 days I begin to recoup my outlay of £21,000 which at a saving of £125 a day means I only have to wait 5-6 months.

5 to 6 Months during which the rate needs to stay the same through 5 new congresees, CPs and PPs.

I can understand how you could get that implication, but the point of this article is that keeping Work Tax at it's current level would mean WAM is a loss making activity.

Other secondary points made in the comments, such as my own, are based off of information I've been provided by other Congress Members and the MoF in the Congress PM chain.

I don't have concrete numbers as I did not envisage I'd need them a few months ago and for that I apologise. I will just take the word of the MoF, which while not ideal, is the only option I have.

Another potential cause could be that on the 21st of July (or thereabouts) admin introduced housing (24days ago) which caused a wage spike which seemed to top out at around £75.

Then we had the 'Empire' Mission which induced some people to offer wages of upto £200 in order to bag those 5 work tickets they needed to progress.

So whereas a 30 day period of daily average (the monitoring period for average wage)in May to June would of looked like this;

30, 30, 30, 30, 30, 30............................30, 30, 30, 30, 30, 30, 30

We instead have one looking like this;

32, 33, 33, 34, 33, 34, 70, 75, 60, 65, 63, 50, 48, 42, 40, 40, 39, 39, 36......
^
House spike

.....36, 36, 36, 36, 34, 32, 200, 100, 75, 48, 48, 42, 40, 39, 39
^
Empire Spike


so we've effectivly got 6 more days of low wages keeping the total average down till we hit the housing bump after that things should start to cool and begin to trend back down to world averages till we hit the empire spike whereafter we can expect* things to return to normal.


*Unless admin causes a spike with Q7 housing!

UKPP's argument is if you keep 2% you lose WAM and the revenue it generates for private citizens, orgs and the treasury.

Opposition feel that dropping it will generate more then dropping it.

The real danger is that we are right and WAM starts to become unprofitable, income revenue drops and the only way to then claw it back (having rejected the decrease) is to raise worktax to a huge level.

Poor Dot.

It's ok - She turned to stripping to make ends meet.