[IFP][PP] On Alliances and Referendums
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by Ronisu
The IFP continues to be dedicated to cooperation and seeking out opportunities to partner with the Government and other parties on all topics, however this Alliance Referendum has been hastily put together and that cannot be ignored.
Some of the concerns of our members are:
*The Rules that would guide us and protect us in an Alliance were changed on a whim, what is to say they would not change again without our input or with our interests in mind.
*How could someone change the rules of a major Alliance in the middle of our meeting. This is beyond ridiculous.
*There is a concern that we have not met the MPP requirements to even be petitioning.
*Congress should have a say in this, especially if we are not going to have a public discussion on the referendum that includes more people than the Summit. Less people were there than voted for Rikian in the last election or have already voted in the Congressional election less than half-way in.
*The Government didn't even choose to include information on the Charter or other Alliance details in the Referendum post
*There have been less than 2 days between the announcement of the Summit and this referendum, I have not been informed.
*The requirements are intended to verify that there is a united nation without much strife, we are not united.
Ireland is powerful indeed, to ease the path to our membership Don Croata edited the Founding Charter of Adriatica while we were sitting in the meeting, the chat log can be found here: http://pastebin.com/5snc61NZ
The Government also did not choose to release minutes or notes from the Summit, so the logs for the Summit can be found here: http://pastebin.com/2ETdYHC4 (I have included times before and after the Summit to make sure that full context existed, the Summit starts at 16:20 and ends loosely around 19:00). The people should be as informed as possible and the government has not taken proper steps to ensure that is the case.
We ask the Government to work with us to better inform the 200+ eIrishmen, not just the 30+ that managed to make a summit or even the 110+ that are in political parties. Let's get the word out, investigate this issue and vote on it as an informed electorate.
With those comments in mind, the IFP urges more discussion on this issue. We urge the government to write more articles explaining their position, and we invite Adriatica representatives to speak up. We need to know what we as a nation are getting into before we can provide our agreement. We would also like to join an Alliance that respects the Charter they are founded upon and has rules solid enough to be reliable, but flexible enough not to need to be changed at an inconvenience.
These considerations lead many of our members to vote NO on the current referendum. Regardless of how the referendum ends, I'll let Sluagh tell you the next steps in his own words:
If the Referendum fails to meet Adriatica's 66% threshold, please work with us through the previously mentioned steps and make eIreland a better informed, more democratic, and more represented place.
Ronisu
Party President
Irish Freedom Party
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Comments
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Informing the populace>Keeping them in the dark. You chose to share your plans with 15% of the population last night and then opened a No Discussion Referendum thread about it today. This is an amazing authoritarian move and we won't be your rubber stamp. The vote will likely pass, I have no clue what the other parties are doing, but this is a forced sham election and you admit it in your comment not even an hour ago. You don't care how the vote turns out, this isn't about the voice of the people, this is about the Government forcing it's will with a plebiscite to validate it.
There is a section of your community that is disheartened, work to improve on what is happening here so we can travel together or keep building walls that divide. You accuse Winston of shutting people out and here you are trying to shut down an argument rather than listen to your people.
Work with us to inform the electorate, and lets all travel together knowing the risks and rewards of the road ahead as eIreland...together.
You are choosing bureaucracy > National Security.
Wow. Just wow.
Informing the populace>Keeping them in the dark. You chose to share your plans with 15% of the population last night and then opened a No Discussion Referendum thread about it today. This is an amazing authoritarian move and we won't be your rubber stamp. The vote will likely pass, I have no clue what the other parties are doing, but this is a forced sham election and you admit it in your comment not even an hour ago. You don't care how the vote turns out, this isn't about the voice of the people, this is about the Government forcing it's will with a plebiscite to validate it.
There is a section of your community that is disheartened, work to improve on what is happening here so we can travel together or keep building walls that divide. You accuse Winston of shutting people out and here you are trying to shut down an argument rather than listen to your people.
Work with us to inform the electorate, and lets all travel together knowing the risks and rewards of the road ahead as eIreland...together.
Everyone who wanted to attend the summit and make decisions could come. Those who arent interested didnt.
Everyone else could ask for logs.
They shouldn't have had to ask for the logs, they should have been PROVIDED. A government that has to be asked for this type of information is clearly not acting in the best possible interests or in good faith.
Best possible interests for Ireland is to join a kick ass alliance that is gonna tear up the god damn world. Best opportunity the country has had in years. Ireland will join this alliance and all you are doing here is ensuring your party will be remembered as the ones that tried to block this. That will not be forgotten in Ireland or in Adriatica.
If the Alliance is petty enough to remember that one political party had some concerns about how our Government chose to (poorly) present their Alliance, well that would be unfortunate.
If u think this would be forgotten youre horribly wrong.
don't get testy Don. it is Ron's right to take as much time deciding if he wants to defend eIreland as he wants.
it is fair to assume that he and several other ppl will require an abundance of time to decide if they want to have a strong, valid contract assuring eIreland will be defended. they will have many addendum you must address.
im sure glad the leaders of the Dictatorship have their own non-contractual international supporters to rely upon. without an alliance, Sluagh/Don's leadership is the only hope of staying on the map.
o7
I accept your benevolent defense of our actions Sweet. It is good to meet someone who understands humble Vogons such as us, 🙂.
I don't think informing the populace through articles and presenting facts, as well as a warning that today was referendum day at the meeting, YESTERDAY, is too red-tape-full of a task, but I appreciate the political narrative you are pushing.
not a problem Ron you roll out that red tape. Lots of folks are fond of red, these guys who neighbour most of our regions for instance
http://www.erepublik.com/en/main/law/Serbia/175482
they just love to spread red everywhere, so bored they're troll-proposing wars/NE's atm too.
just let everyone know when ur done with the politiking. the world will wait.
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I can only stop once you do, 🙂. I have a terrible habit of replying to politicking.
this article made it pretty oficial that you are incapable of stopping tbh
Stopping what? My party members and I just feel the Government could have taken more steps to better inform the populace without any significant delays to anything. Hell, you could have made it infinitely more democratic simply by posting some information like the Charter. The Government has instead opted for a "Trust us, but vote, so it's a Democracy" route, which is simply a sham.
do you feel the government could have taken any steps to find a better alliance? which of the available alliances are you counter-proposing, or are you claiming to be the founder of an upcoming one?
There was no point in posting the Charter Ron as that changes as Don mind changes..in fact the threshold for the vote is no longer a stipulation...😛
Your choice, your consequences.
When Ireland will need help, you wont receieve it. I can hardly imagine anyone from IFP getting anywhere near the HQ of the alliance and even close to Irish FA.
Have a nice evening politicians.
The IFP has several decorated members of past Alliance HQs, but thanks. More than twice as many people have voted for the "meaningless" Congress than attended that Summit, and we are just halfway through.
Your argument is too funny even to bother answering it..
We literally watched the Charter change before our eyes. That's not a satisfying thought when it comes to who is going to be our Alliance network.
Lol
-I think Adriatica sounds too similar to my username.
-No worries! I changed it! 🙂 Much more clear now!
Do it as fast as you change the account youre commenting from and we will all be fine.
Like I said in the meeting last night, we are clearly all Shytach multis, xD
Actually we would be able to appoint a Military Commander if one of us is CP. In that case they would also be head of state and sit at the General Summits.
After those votes its more likely ypu would be kicked out of alliance if in charge since youre now seen as enemies. Publishing the articles against joining and voting against it isnt the best qualifications to become MC.
I don't think Adriatica is nearly as petty as you are making them out to be, Don Croata. They look like a great group of countries and solid friends. If they are as you describe we have every reason to vote no, however, and that is even more disheartening. 😞
There's no provision to be kicked out in the charter, only a termination of membership which requires a referendum in the member country.
Equally, the charter doesn't set out any guidelines for selecting an MC. Its at the CP's discretion.
unlike you guys with your constitution, a good alliance operates by judging people's actions and not some words written on a google doc. Do you honestly believe for example that the alliance would start thumping the charter like the bible if a Serb PTOer became CP in an Adriatica nation? Do you honestly believe they would allow such a person to pick an MC for the alliance? It is quite clear that none of you guys have a bulls notion when it comes to good foreign affairs.
So then there's nothing to stop Ireland from being thrown out of the Alliance one Sluagh is gone or democracy comes back. They could view that as a threat just like a PTOer. There's even an article that states that the alliance is for Dictators and basically against democracies. So what happens if Ireland turns back into a democracy? Are we left with nothing and nobody?
It was said even yesterday that our only potential threat is Canada, who are too unorganized and frazzled to make any move.
So tell me, why is making a quick and hush move to Adriatica the BEST solution for Ireland? If it were that great, we wouldn't have only been talking about it for 2 days.
Wiz, we havent shared a border with Canada in some time.
instead we have Serbia, the biggest of all threats, bordering 1/2 of our regions.
As for our 'safe' border, uk is an enemy rainbow 1/2 the time.
That's not me saying that, that's me repeating a point made last night.
Ron thank you for this. Why was there not a public discussion article for everyone 🙁. Let the people speak or we just might sing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMYNfQlf1H8
Best alliance for Ireland since EDEN. We have been given a gift of unequaled value. Reasons for voting No are the weakest I have ever seen. Politics hurting Ireland again.
They are the reasons my members gave. The Government can choose to work with us or try to trample us, but the Referendum could have been handled better. Hell even adding more information to the post would have been good. There is a sense of urgency that is not being communicated to the people, I have been contacted in PMs, but still no word to the population. If we choose to continue to keep people in the dark, how can a fair referendum be run?
Almost all of your members were there in a summit and mostly agree adriatica is a good option.
Boosting your own ego with the support of unexpirienced players with devastating consequences for Ireland arent gonna bring u any more votes. On the contrary...but those votes means more to you than Irish interests, so its fine for you to "follow your members decision" and hurt ireland because for you its IFP > Ireland.
I'll be glad to let other members fill you in, but this wasn't a decision that I pushed, nor do I see how it helps my ego (where have I said I was better at anything). The Government has decided that for it The Closed Circle>eIreland when it decided not to fully inform the people. Look at the comments inside the article, do the people who attended even know what is going on, no.
The discussion we had in the IFP party thread was very enlightening, perhaps a public discussion (rather than a briefing) would have been even more enlightening.
You mention in the article that "These considerations lead many of our members to vote NO"
Did anyone in the party actually argue for a Yes vote? If so, how many?
I don't think anyone from IFP "agreed" to joining Adriatica. We were told by you and Sluagh what was in play and that was mostly it. Then we began delving into things not related to Adriatica 😃
Wizard Kelly started leaning yes but with significant reservations about the Charter change last night ( he was the initial person to mention that). He would have to say himself, but the way the Government has treated this whole thing has and continues to solidify the "No" vote for many people.
Not a very responsible way to decide which way to vote.
Please do tell us of how votes should be run and cast. I dare say the run part has proven a flop here. As to casting it is for each eIrish citizen to vote their conscience and that conscience doesn't have to answer to you or any other person. The government didn't offer a discussion article or thread, so we discussed, perhaps the government should have offered more discussion?
I would say the responsible way to vote is to put what is good for Ireland before whether you like how a Govt handled the vote. The game is not that complicated and this is one of the most obviously beneficial things for Ireland I have ever seen. I do not believe for a second that a player of your experience does not know this too.
No member stated a solid No position for the first couple of hours, however as a general analysis once it started to rain it poured.
Wow, no one buyed votes for this article yet ...
I'm sure someone will. Are we keeping you up Don, get some rest, 🙂.
Don I now read it that this alliance is only while you guys are in control and if and when that ends we get kicked out.
These are your words
This changes things dramatically
Nowhere is this said. Making up lies as usual.