[DMV4CP] Victory or Death?
Day 2,355, 08:54
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Published in Canada 
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by
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by DMV3
There has been some moaning and complaining from a certain eCanadian political party about the idea of using War Bonds to help pay for this war. The fact is simple, we're broke and unless we can get loans from our allies we will not be able to fight an effective war against our imperialist occupation by the eUS. Last month I used roughly 200k of my personal money to secure some much needed victories against the eUS. These victories came up just short of helping us secure a Congress, but the fact is they cost the eUS a whole lot more than we spent just to ensure we did not get a Congress.
The fact is I am willing to spend more to help win this war, but what I am able to spend is not enough by itself to win this war by making it painful for the eUS to fight against us. I know how the eUS works and I know we are on the verge of making it too costly for them to continue with their occupation. The issue is we need to be able to raise a good deal of money quickly and I can see no other way than to be able to guarantee War Bonds with our gold reserves. By guaranteeing that we will pay back these bonds we can ask our allies to help us pay for the war effort, but if we can not we are stuck in a situation where we will not be able to make a large enough impact in this war to end our wipe and force the eUS to give us reasonable terms.
A war of attrition only works if a nation is willing to back it with more than words, we must be willing to make it costly for our opponents to continue to occupy us. My opponent and his party believe we can do it with the small donations we are going to be able to raise from a nation that for all intensive purposes is bankrupt without our reserve funds. I personally call bull****, but if you believe him I encourage you to vote for him and MDP because I know I can not make that claim.
How do I know I can not make that claim? I have helped run wars for eCanada in the past and I have also help run wars for our current enemy. I know their mentality and I know how to beat them. Last month we did the impossible, we stole initiative from them and won a string of victories that embarrassed them. This was only done through spending cc, so the choice is simple we can go all in, or we might as well capitulate to our enemies like Muglack has suggested. The choice is yours eCanada, we can fight like a nation willing to stand up to our bullies or we can start the long road to capitulation by fighting a war without resources. Those are our only real choices, Victory or Death.
If you support this i would ask that you please shout this to show eCanada where you stan
😛
I choose Victory!
http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/-dmv4cp-victory-or-death--2396487/1/20
Will you stand with me eCanada?
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pertamax is secured!!
I think your choice was wrong
Dennis, these are arguments made by people with no genuine interest in victory against our oppressors. You have proven yourself already that you are willing and able, and that Victory Bonds are a necessary program to implement. My advice is not to let people, especially those without an alternate course to victory, sabotage your great idea.
The problem is that a potential CP is promising to spend the entire treasury to repay war bonds that a congress may or may not approve. I don't think it's wise for a single person to make financial obligations of this magnitude.
And that's why we will be electing a Meta-Congress to show the will of the eCanadian people.
Sorry if I missed it, but did you write an article about the meta-congress or is that still yet to come? I don't recall seeing it.
Instead of electing a Meta-Congress, do a eCanada-Poll to see the people's stance on it instead of pushing forward a Popularity Contest for a fake congress.
I wrote an article about it. Zianni, while a poll might be more Democratic the idea behind a Meta-Congress is to increase activity and accountability.
DMV3, TBH the meta-congress thing wont still make any decisions legitimate regarding the treasury. It is not electing representatives, it is just giving a couple of people freedom to choose whoever they want and you as a CP (well you're not even CP yet) do not have enough power to rule how the democratic representatives should be elected or seats distributed. Your constant will to step over founding principle boundaries of a state is slightly starting to create a pattern.
The poll (call it referenda) would be a much much better and legitimate idea. Why you do not wish to go with that is beyond me. Meta-congress wont raise no accountability, it will actually do everything to decrease it. Activity maybe, but that would be just a small circle of people, who would be active anyway.
A small circle of people is more activity than we have been seeing lately. The fact is we need to increase activity during a wipe. And the Constitution states it must be an in-game election, it doesn't state mechanics at all.
"in-game" means within the mechanics of the game based on my interpretation of it.
DMV but what you propose is not even a "election". It is an appointment. PP's appoint certain individuals straight to your meta-congress.
Yes while you can say, that in a regular election PP's also have power to list someone very high on the party list, thus making it very likely that those individuals get in. But the point is even then mass publics still have somewhat of a end say with which party they vote for. But in your meta-congress elections mass publics are totally left out. What you propose is authocracy or technocracy of a sort.
I state again, with proposing a referenda to ask the public whether they want to use the bonds or not, would be a legitimate way to approach this. Accountability would be held by voters not some fiction made meta-congressmen who were appointed by the CP. I state also again, that the people chosen by the parties will most likely already be the active individuals, since PP's wont never ever send a sleeper to represent them. Meaning you do not get that much of a spike in activity, as the people there would be active anyways.
Before you stamp me as a MDP affiliated hater, I just want to say I've been with the party for maybe like a week. I do not feel that much of a affiliation with them, I could easily leave it with no issues. Then again why should I do it because of you?
lol
Just lol.
game mechanics > meta-game.
good luck though DMV... and best of luck to Canada.
[removed]
Good luck
United Front will be very interested in these war bonds!
Do you want your eChildren to grow up under an American occupation? Buy war bonds now, before it is too late.
ED, you were opposed to cashing in that gold and giving to Rylde if I remember correctly. What changed your mind?
I was not opposed, I proposed the last transfer myself. I was pissed off every other CP who wanted to use it previously got shot down by congress. Rylde proposes it and everyone thought it was a wonderful idea. I'm prepared to go all in to screw with America.
For the record, I'm not opposed to using it. I'm opposed to using it without permission. I didn't make a motion on the forum but on the group PM I did post that we should cash in the gold and move the cc into various peoples accounts for safe keeping. I remember there were security concerns about the money disappearing.
You used 200k of your personal wealth together with Canadian funds and you're telling me the US has used up more?
Despite the fact we take your taxes
Despite the fact we take your bonuses
Despite the fact we're denying you congress
Despite the fact openning RWs is extremely expensive, and not of all yours worked.
Canada lost, just face it.
You take 80% of 1%.
We never had a lot of bonus's to begin with and the economic module sucks any way.
Congress is fun for about 10 people who bother to show up.
RW are 1000 cc per person. No shortage of volunteers. Takes about 30 minutes to get one up from the first shout.
Okay, we lost and you won. What does that mean? We are prepared to keep fighting from our lost position until hell freezes over.
Volunteers or not, it's part of the Canadian society as a whole, it's completely irrelevent where that money came from as it could've been used for widely other things.
It seems to me that no one is saying "Okay, we lost and you won" - you're trying to excuse yourselves and claim that you're "draining damage" or "wasting our CCs" which is just untrue.
It seems like you're so deluded by pride that you're going to keep wasting resources like mad - and for what, exactly? I wonder what exactly you get.
Is it draining damage? Well, not quite, since you guys are part of LETO, you could be using your damage up in the European theatre, but you rather keep your pride instead of surrendering to the US and acknolweding that you lost, and get a mutual agreement of your defeat.
Of course, you can always claim we're intensively overkilling in damage and hypocritcally call us "imperialists"(while being allied to the biggest imperialist in the game, Serbia?), and you can always get LETO mobile army to put their damage for you, or buy mercs just like you used to. (200K cc again?).
You guys are going to be left without congress, no bonuses, no government programs because you're broke as hell, and we'll enjoy ourselves as we get richer, stronger and more productive while enjoying an activity boost whilst the Canadian community slowly dies out.
Oh well, at least you have pride, right? And you can always tap yourself on the back saying the US is a bully that won't pick on people its own size.
You do realize we have not had any choice in these matters from the beginning to now? The beginning was the day the USA told us we would never have a place with them in a new alliance. This came first and everything that happened since resulted from this one message.
We had an MPP with the USA for months prior to January and assumed we would welcome where ever the USA went. The choices we have made since were the only ones made available to us.
The USA has refused to even discuss a deal. We refuse to sit quietly while you enjoy your spoils. We have to make the price of occupation greater then the benefit or we will never get a deal.
The USA has lost but just does not seem to realise it.
I always was under the impression that Canada was an ally & friend of the US, was always there to watch its back, to help out a friend if ever needed.
Well for short term gain, it appears that a long term benefit has been tossed away.
This game is cyclic, there are no winners & losers outside of the short term.
The US has a short term advantage - it certainly has not WON.
Is the benefit of that short term advantage anything more than small change & the opportunity to gloat in US articles (which by the way is wasted, US articles are mostly crap - stop playing eRep & focus on your education, learn to express yourselves)
Bringing up the past for no apperent reason, but sure - you basically NE'd the UK for NO reason other than boredom, YOU made a mistake. Takes two to tango, no one here is an innocent victim and both the US and Canada made 'mistakes'. However, there's no reason to dwelve in the past.
The USA doesn't refuse to discuss a deal, it refuses you being in an enemy alliance & MPP with them, especially when it's Serbia. It's simply illogical to discuss "peace" when you're in bed with our biggest enemy. Of course, there's room to talk IF you guys actually surrender to the US.
ischelle it's cute how you fail to understand that one of the reasons we joined that alliance in the first place is because you told us to piss off when we tried to join you guys.
Now that you've shown us how neighborly you really are though I think I'd rather stay buddies with them. They've been better allies than you. You're only allies when it benefits you. I only hope that soon your allies realize this and leave you hanging.
We'll remember this next time you get wiped and come crying to us. We're a lot like elephants. We never forget.
Do you have a point, or do you just enjoy salting wounds and beating dead horses?
We haven't lost until we surrender. There is no better use of cc than attacking the eUS. none. We will not quit. And you may be stronger but ultimately we will prevail for one reason - we care more than you do. You'll eventually lose and save face by claiming it was planned.
Ask Gnilraps how much he's spent.
Look at the daily tax intake for the US. Look at the daily tax intake for what's left of Canada.
The math is easy.
Even if the US spends more, the US has more.
Canada desperately needs massive Serbian funds.
There are Nazis on the Moon. Buy war bonds now.
Well it just got all Iron Sky up in here.
"There has been some moaning and complaining from a certain eCanadian political party about the idea of using War Bonds to help pay for this war."
Didn't even get to read the article and I have a problem. Which is that "certain eCanadian political party"? Would you be speaking of MDP? You've beat that political horse to death. Everyone knows you've got it in for MDP since no one wanted to have you as PP so you could "reform" the party. Really funny part is that I'm not even really all that involved with the party. I joined because I'm on Rylde's cabinet and I pretty much agree with what they say.
Anyhow, Jason Welsh is PP and I've not noticed his article with moaning and complaining. Could you please cite the link here? And I know you're not talking about me moaning and complaining, I just came to the conclusion after viewing public sentiment and considering what was said the last time Congress was in session that the people said no. I've learned that if people in eRep don't want something they get pissy if you make 'em do it anyway. (Ask Plato how many nastygrams he gets.)
Look at the comments the only people complaining are MDP party members.
talk about not accepting criticism from citizens...
if you think the party jas a really tight camradarie where we all just rush to back eachother, them believe me it does not.
A good prez analyzes criticism, not only defends every single idea he has.
I'm analyzing it and it's coming from one small portion of our public, if it were coming from a cross section of our population that might be different. The fact is if people don't approve of War Bonds I have already suggested they vote for Dill since he thinks he can win a war without them. I'm defending the idea because it is the only way we come out of our current wipe without capitulating to our enemy.
Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said that I thought we could win the war without your bonds. What I said was that I believe the people don't want to use the bonds to access the gold in the treasury. I also believe that LETO is how we will ultimately win the war.
When are they going to win us the war Dill? Next week? Next month? Next year?
But your war bonds won't win the war either... sorry to break it to ya.
War Bonds will do a whole lot more than wishing and praying will do.
well I don't believe in prayer so that's irrelevant. My point is that the 500,000cc is not enough to win the war. You already said you spent 200,000cc the last time around. I know others who did the same. I spent my entire balance of food, weapons, EBs and gold as well.
We're not talking what I spent tanking that would increase the total a lot but it's not the point. A war fund gives us options that we currently don't have for dealing with the Americans. I think that's what you guys are overlooking here.
Dennis, your personal war against the MDP is becoming pathetic. The country needs unity and strength - which MDP provides - but you would rather label us boogeymen and villains because we are not your paid yes-men.
Pretend-money is pretend-money. It should not matter who tells you this.
You want to go "all-in" on an enemy that is vastly more wealthy, by selling our future to foreign interests. What happens when we spend it all and win? The same that happened after we "won the initiative" last time - we come out the other side of a string of victories completely broke, the enemy NE's us and wipes us again, except this time we have literally nothing left with which to fight back. Less than nothing, really, because you are promising to pay interest.
How is it the MDP's fault that you have no concept of the future?
And, once again, the expression is "for all intents and purposes."
First, you guys sound like you offer unity. Secondly you know literally nothing about how the eUS works or apparently how a war of attrition works. The point is to make it as costly for the occupiers as possible. If we are never freed we're already bankrupt so spending it or not spending it is the same thing. We're broke now as it is. What exactly is the difference between leveraging something to free ourselves and staying wiped indefinitely and still not having access to it? Same end result, except I'm actually suggesting we use the money when we need it by selling War Bonds that might actually help free us. While you and your party pals would suggest we sit on our hands until the eUS gets bored or until you guys decide to capitulate to the enemy.
Did you not comprehend the part about our enemy being VASTLY more wealthy? They are the ones who will win the "war of attrition." They outgun us and outmoney us. We need an eventual diplomatic solution for lasting peace because we will not ever be able to beat them in numbers or money.
Xander is correct... we may make progress with the 500k in the treasury but once we exhaust those funds, we will get slammed back into a wipe without an underlying treaty of some sort.
Shaun the political situation in the eUS isn't nearly as cut and drive as you seem to believe it is. Here is the fact if they spend what we spend dollar for dollar they will in fact be paying two years worth of what would be fair rent to hold resources for a single month. They may not like us but they are not stupid. The reason they are pressing the wipe is because they know we are broke. Once we have funds to push back it will become a different game.
Cut and dry* auto-correct sucks
Other then the pic where do you read anything about interest? I don't think we need to pay interest because it will only be us interested in buying or I should say "loaning."
We transferred 800 gold last congress next to no one was opposed. We cannot access 2648 gold sitting in the treasury right now.
I cannot help but think it just matters to some people which CP wants to use the gold.
We are just getting around a game mechanic.