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eUS in the Circle of Trust

Dia 1,886, 13:21 Published in USA Israel por New Faustian Man
With the eUS entering Circle of Trust as the alliance’s latest trial member, I thought I’d share my opinion on some of the pro’s and con’s.



First however, let me say that the lack of any sort of consultation with the eUS people on any meaningful level prior to the eUS joining CoT as a trial member is massively disappointing! Joining an alliance isn’t like signing an MPP, nor even like foisting an unpopular NE law on the country and forcing us to war – this is joining an alliance and committing the nation to fighting for a select bunch of countries (most of whom are longtime enemies) possibly for the next 2 years or more! Its pretty standard in this game for a country to host some sort of poll or referendum to gauge public opinion prior to making huge moves like leaving and/or joining an alliance, and the eUS’s failure in this regard is unfortunately going to have major ramifications down the line – and give legitimacy to the type of criticism that will view this move as undemocratic, illegal and negotiated under-the-table because the presiding powers knew that if they ever dared propose it to the eUS public it'd more than likely get the thumbs down. So not exactly an auspicious start as far as I'm concerned.

As such, this whole enterprise is pretty tenuous as things stand. Which is a shame, because the eUS joining Circle of Trust has some real merits, not the least of which is that the Three-Major-Alliances dream could actually come to fruition. Its just a shame the whole process took place behind closed doors as all this really does is lend some serious ammo to the detractors.




Pros/Cons

Despite having said the above I’d also like to categorically state that I’m not overwhelmingly in the AGAINST camp, nor am I all FOR the eUS’s move into Circle of Trust.

I’m not 100% AGAINST it because I’m of the opinion this game is crying out for three separate alliances that can hold their own against each other. It was the main reason I was originally in support of CTRL – splitting Serb-Polish Damage always made sense – and with Circle of Trust I believe the eWorld has another (much better) chance of establishing a multi-polar world as opposed to the bi-polar slugfest in the ONE vs. EDEN/TERRA, or EDEN vs. CoTWO mould.

However I couldn’t describe myself as overwhelmingly in support of Circle of Trust either -- not as thing’s stand. I don’t know what this eUS administration have been told by CoT HQ as regards the sharing of TWO and CoT MPPs – are they planning to renew them indefinitely? – and considering the outright lies the eUS public were force-fed by repeated eUS administrations regarding MPPs and suchlike during the CTRL debacle, I think I’ll wait for CoT HQ to make a statement on whether MPPs are going to be indefinitely maintained with TWO countries before I definitively make a decision in this regard. But I think this is a MAJOR issue which needs resolved if Circle of Trust is really going to move forward as a bona fide alliance.


Oops! Someone's failed to master their mechanisation


Ideologically, Circle of Trust shares much in common with EDEN in its formative days: when all members had something like equal say, when Damage was distributed to those who needed it and not based on some unspoken hierarchy that many accuse EDEN of operating today.

The odd thing is that the Circle of Trust ethos finds its direct antithesis not in modern EDEN (despite its faults) -- but in the imperial ambitions of Poland-Serbia-Hungary. CoT and TWO are allied out of convenience, otherwise they are diametrically opposed on all levels. TWO is merely ONE MarkII, existing for one reason and one reason only: bonuses, expansion, bonuses, expansion, bonuses, expansion, bonuses, expansion, bonuses, expansion, bonuses, expansion etc. Whilst CoT (if you believe the hype) professes to be the complete opposite: a community of allies, were each has equal say and nothing is dependent on a country's size.





On the surface then -- taking the above into account -- eUSA joining Circle of Trust has incredible potential. Not only does it offer eUS players (many of whom are from established CoT nations) something exciting to play for in this game once more, but it goes a huge way to stabilizing Circle of Trust as a genuine alliance, which until now – considering its reliance on TWO, specifically Serbian Damage – it could never in all seriousness claim.

For me personally its this last point which all things hinge on: Circle of Trust must assume a policy that views both EDEN and TWO in the same light, ultimately as enemies pursuing different objectives.

Everything else that’s cited as reason why the eUS shouldn’t ally with Circle of Trust pales next to this point.




I have no problem with the eUS allying with longtime enemies like eIndo and eF.Y.R.Macedonia; wars with eIndo have always been fun, without any of the real nasty subtext we sometimes have when fighting against other nations; and I don’t see coming into alignment with them such a massive problem (ignoring their TWO MPPs for the moment). The situation with eF.Y.R.Macedonia is different but not massively so, its true that the eUS have fought eF.Y.R.Macedonia relentlessly over the past two-plus years, but its also true the eUS has so much more to gain by improving relations with eF.Y.R.Macedonia than it does continuing to perceive them a stooge of Serbia.


F.Y.R. Macedonia: Because FCUK Polish 10/10s

eF.Y.R.Macedonia’s outspoken criticism of ePoland over the last few months was incredibly refreshing, and a real change of tack for an old ONE stalwart, none of whom are exactly renowned for criticizing each other publically, we usually have to wait for the “secret” logs to surface before we’d find out what they really thought of each other. And for me eF.Y.R.Macedonia’s criticism of ePoland pretty much epitomized what I already knew of the Circle of Trust, were the ethos is equality of all members, no alliance-within-the-alliance, and as it says in the Circle of Trust charter: “to help [all Circle of Trust] states reach and maintain the optimal shape of their economy and the economy of the alliance as a whole.”

I think the eUS’s smooth assimilation into Circle of Trust may be hampered not by the powerhouses like eIndonesia or eF.Y.R.Macedonia but rather with some of the smaller founder CoT members, specifically New Zealand. I don’t know what the break down is in New Zealand between RL Kiwis and RL Serbs, but for all intent’s and purposes – going by what recent eUS administrations designate a ‘PTO’ – New Zealand is under PTO. And has been pretty much since it was added in 2010. How the eUS can successfully ally with a Serb-colony like New Zealand remains to be seen.


TWO-CoT Split: Bulgaria and Serbia

Any division between Circle of Trust and TWO is probably going to have its genesis in deteriorating relations between Bulgaria and Serbia. Bulgaria is the CoT powerhouse, and Serbia due to position, is the TWO country that presents the biggest threat to it and CoT generally.



However, after Bulgaria left EDEN they got almost immediate support from Serbia and ONE against Turkey/EDEN -- when Serbia/ONE could easily have rolled Bulgaria over for its own gain. So this is not an MPP Bulgaria are going to walk away from any time soon.


Because Serbia is better!

And why would they?

Serbia, since regaining Aquitaine, has returned to its place as the undisputed military powerhouse in all of Erepublik. So why would Bulgaria wish to throw away an ally like this? If they were forced to choose between the eUS and eSerbia they'd be choosing between a weaker, distant, fair-weather friend like the eUSA over the most powerful e-nation in the game that, incidentally, just happens to share a border with them.

Not exactly a tough choice as far as I can see.

And yet Bulgaria’s plans to move its capital to somewhere in Arabia does suggest it may already be preparing to put some distance between itself and Serbia and the EDEN powerhouses.

Only time will tell.


Another Problem: Different Loyalties within the eUS

According to Erepublik the eUS has 8646 citizens, whereas egov4you recognizes 5,320 (4.22% of world) as legitimate citizens and of these, 2,262 as regular fighters.

Currently, the eUS’s officially funded military is comprised of the following:

- SEAL Team 6 - 133
- The Special Forces - 117
- Ultramarines - 74
- Rogue Squadron - 65
- Air Force - 173
562



That’s 562 soldiers which receive direct funding/supply from the eUnited States government. If we go by Erepublik’s pop. statistic that’s just over 10% of the population, but going by the egov4you stat – in all likelihood the more accurate figure – of regular fighters (2,262) it follows that approximately 24.8% of the eUS populace adhere to orders that come straight from the office of the commander-in-chief. 24.8% isn’t a bad figure, especially not if we factor in the kind of Damage this percentage regularly do, however it does ask certain questions of the kind of pull US presidents have outside the official eUS military structure, and the continuing and deeply divisive problems the eUS is experiencing.

Exactly how much does CoT HQ know of the kind of structural problems existing within the eUS in regards the different bodies that determine where eUS Damage goes? Have they been briefed regarding the eUS Military’s position, which remains pro-EDEN and intends to continue assisting the eUS’s traditional allies?

It would be wrong to class the eUS as simply 'divided' -- it's a true democracy and as such entertains a myriad of political opinions, which is only proper. However this also means no political body -- not even the president -- can really claim to speak for the nation as a whole, not without first soliciting the feeling of the populace.

Until the the current president does this, and allows the populace to vote either Yay or Nay I'd don't really see this application to CoT as in any way legitimate. And I think if the players who make up the memberbase of CoT knew the truth of what's going on, that they'd see it in the same way.



Hong Kong! Because being allied with eTaiwan for 2 years < eSouth Korea for 24hours = means lets wipe eTaiwan






Enjoy the girl!



ALL HAIL THE ROMULAN EMPIRE!
ALL HAIL SQRT!

SQRT IN YOUR SLEEP
SQRT IN YOUR EYE
SQRT IN YOUR COCKTAIL


As ever, thanks for taking the time to read,
NFM
 

Comentários

PailosRey
PailosRey Dia 1,886, 14:05

Great article! And excellent analysis of the internal relationships inside each alliance.

V+S!

Vilar47
Vilar47 Dia 1,886, 14:20

I am against entering!

But whatever...

Drakoveca
Drakoveca Dia 1,886, 14:37

i like your objectivity! Voted

Maxwell Wolf
Maxwell Wolf Dia 1,886, 14:58

that first image is powerful

thaddaus
thaddaus Dia 1,886, 14:59

good article

Fox Die Reloaded
Fox Die Reloaded Dia 1,886, 14:59

Voted.

Punisher FC
Punisher FC Dia 1,886, 15:17

So what I read was eBulgaria is eSerbia's bitch and eUS is a pushover and can't fight FYROM to save their lives

Trufax?

LitoII
LitoII Dia 1,886, 15:17

I hope more people would read the WHOLE article. It presents good points, but I am still on the opinion that Serbia is a too big straw inside your eye : /

Yes, Serbia helped Bulgaria in a vital moment and we wouldn't end this mutual protection pact. But if you check out the current campaigns, you will see that TWO is fighting for CoT to a considerable extent and has CoD set to a CoT-campaign for quite the time.

But you are totally right - the USA would equal the powers of the three alliances with Brazil and Russia being the only big countries to stay neutral.


I know USA citizen have problems with some CoTWO representatives, but I also know that such a change would be wind of change in the good meaning of the phrase. If you can deal with that internally, of course : D

Salutes!

LitoII
LitoII Dia 1,886, 15:18

@ Centurion - we are nobody's bitch, I think we made that clear with the EDEN-Turkish affair : )

Aries Prime
Aries Prime Dia 1,886, 15:19

Come on America you are letting me down!

Why are you guys such cowards on this game? I swear I would probably be upset to call myself an American on this game even though I am damn proud in real life. Grow some balls buds!

A Rock Star in Tanzania
A Rock Star in Tanzania Dia 1,886, 15:44

Fail eUSA

Mochan Drust
Mochan Drust Dia 1,886, 15:45

love the girl dude, love it xD

Wildrunner
Wildrunner Dia 1,886, 15:45

it's up for USA to prove it's fit for CoT and not the other way around

etljo stnov
etljo stnov Dia 1,886, 15:51

Nice article. Of course, there are probably others PoV. Anyway, I like your analyzing and you got my vote. Shouted, too. : )

Chucky Norris
Chucky Norris Dia 1,886, 15:51

well written, It does present an objective view of the whole situation, it does change us from the usual propaghanda we get fed.

Jorgihnio III
Jorgihnio III Dia 1,886, 15:55

We don't want any americanos/gringos in our alliance!

coolinbun
coolinbun Dia 1,886, 16:05

"TWO is merely ONE MarkII, existing for one reason and one reason only: bonuses, expansion, bonuses, expansion..."

well.... m8... this is a goal of this game. You can`t blame TWO for those reasons

NIce article.... btw :]

Zappie
Zappie Dia 1,886, 16:07

Faust writes amazing articles, love reading them.

I would have thought CoT would request a referendum before allowing trial members to join.

ObIiterate
ObIiterate Dia 1,886, 16:14

"well.... m8... this is a goal of this game. You can`t blame TWO for those reasons"

lol

Nice goal, enjoy your bonus obsessed "friends".

Zelja
Zelja Dia 1,886, 16:25

lol
there never was and never will be "3 alliances" CoT is already a servant of ONE , its just convenient way of some countries not to be "directly" allied with in this case Serbia/Hungary/Poland, but being allied via "servant" alliance like this is basically same thing...

so good job phoenix/peace/one/two with creating all of these sub-servant alliances and with constantly changing your alliance name just to full *umb people

Wildrunner
Wildrunner Dia 1,886, 16:31

Zelja, CoT is not a servent alliance to ONE/TWO, sure it's dependant on TWO for dmg but that's because EDEN focuses to fight against CoT 99% of the time.

You keep on barking and barking against evil ONE/TWO but you rarely if ever fight against them.

Read this article, it might open your eyes about certain things.

http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/the-mud-pit-called-international-diplomacy-2195003/1/20

Albacetenis
Albacetenis Dia 1,886, 16:33

I think you should be neutral because you have some problems with allies of CoT, and maybe with eNZ, and this will only worsen your relations...
Good luck in CoT!

AlbRepublik
AlbRepublik Dia 1,886, 16:33

http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/here-we-are-1-2196632/1/20
---VOTE & SHOUT---
HERE WE ARE
LETS MAKE IT INTERNATIONAL

Stucna
Stucna Dia 1,886, 16:35

Nice1 Zelja
and may I add tree/four

ExZilYon
ExZilYon Dia 1,886, 16:39

CoT and TWO will stay friendly as long as EDEN exists... As simple as that. You can't expect that some war opens between CoT and TWO because EDEN would gain upper hand and that is what both alliances don't want.
Also as long as you see comments like this from Zelja coming from other EDEN players you are sure that no one will ever look at EDEN as neutral alliance....

nem01able
nem01able Dia 1,886, 16:40

Great article although the situation in NZ isnt really much of a PTO. Ask any RL kiwi what they think about eSerbs controlling alot of their country and they would say "I don't mind".

NueveOcho
NueveOcho Dia 1,886, 16:41

eUSA in CoT:= FAIL

coolinbun
coolinbun Dia 1,886, 16:50

Arrlo

well... I know its pain in the ars when you dont have bonuses... and I`am understand your pain, but point is that having 10/10 bonuses does not mean that we dont have brotherhood in TWO. It`s just oposite.

krispo
krispo Dia 1,886, 16:53

Good one, voted.

Raven Anarcho
Raven Anarcho Dia 1,886, 16:56

The US is too ambitious to be in an alliance like CoT. There will be a severe lack of balance. I'm upset that the US seemed to have learned the wrong lesson from the CTRL failure. The lesson learned wasn't "don't create a new alliance", but rather "don't team up with other overly-ambitious countries (Spoland)" The US making this decision has let me down once more, proving that you all would rather take the easy route, than establish a new alliance that you can be a core part of.

I shouldn't say "You all" though, as the people unfairly didn't get a say in this.

Regardless, great article. Voted
-R.A.

ElvenCRO
ElvenCRO Dia 1,886, 16:57

great article!

Zelja
Zelja Dia 1,886, 17:01

oh look a guy from poland and a guy from bulgaria claiming cot is not a servant but "friend" of two , how weird and unexpected !!!


you support this "third" alliance bs only bcs ONE controls it...

for me the real "third" alliance should cut the ties with both EDEN and ONE , but ofc that wont happen , since this game cannot support more then two alliances...


every "3rd" alliance is going to pick between "joining" ONE or EDEN, in this case ONE since weak alliances always chose who ever is strongest in the time of their creation

Danie Fox
Danie Fox Dia 1,886, 17:02

I think it is more likely that the USA will be indirectly pro-TWO than every member of CoT will swap to being pro-EDEN. Bulgaria isn't going to ally with Turkey, Macedonia with Greece and so on. The world will never be tripolar, if you are fighting Serbia/Hungary/Macedonia you'll definitely be wanting a Croatian/Romanian/Greek MPP and so on.

Zelja
Zelja Dia 1,886, 17:25

"I think it is more likely that the USA will be indirectly pro-TWO"

lol "more likely", this whole alliance (ctrl was similar idea) is created just for this purpose, just a way for ONE to get the damage of countries who cannot join them directly bcs some of ONE full members wouldnt allow them, or in case of USA where population still dont wanna be directly tied to Serbia/Hungary/PL..

you can pretend not to get that, or lie ? (or maybe you are just **mb) , but thats the simple and blatant truth

Mr. Scrat
Mr. Scrat Dia 1,886, 17:38

Nice reading \o

Hale26
Hale26 Dia 1,886, 17:48

Good read

Mr. Jester
Mr. Jester Dia 1,886, 18:01

The world won't be tri-polar, but with CoT WE can be on top of the world! Let's face it, no time soon will we go on a massive campaign against Serbia. We really don't give a rat's ass about Hungary.
So let's do what we can and leave the Serb-hating for later!

Stolch
Stolch Dia 1,886, 18:02

I read to the part where you start making the assumptions that CoT needs the USA to legitimize itself and realized there is no point continuing.

You definitely have no grasp on things and no grasp on alliances nor the relations between them. EDEN is very much alike to TWO in the sense you describe, bonuses-expansion, bonuses-expansion.

Truth of the matter is, USA has no other alliance it can turn to and it is the one in need of legitimization after the nonstop failure to demonstrate any cohesive position on the international scene for more then 1 year.

Going in with demands, what CoT should or shouldn't do is paramount to delusional arrogance which is very much prevalent in another former alliance of the USA still existing today, but also to some extent can be found in TWO, though much less then in the previous incarnation ONE.

CoT is there, it now has a long track record and it has a style of play and engagement that it has set. Get on board or go your own way, don't demand everyone to adhere to you.

Keep in mind that this alliance is giving the USA a chance even though as we speak large numbers of americans disregard it's government and hypocritically continue to fight against CoT countries while stating that TWO is the antichrist they strive to eliminate.

I'll read the rest of the article later....maybe

ObIiterate
ObIiterate Dia 1,886, 18:10

EDEN focus on CoT is something I resisted from the beginning. I thought there was no reason to lead an assault on multiple fronts on Bulgaria as soon as it had left the alliance other than to punish them, which serves absolutely no strategic purpose.

However, the saying "it takes two to tango" is applicable now. CoT is not forced into its anti-EDEN, dependent on TWO position. Serbia and Poland enjoy full bonus while CoT and EDEN smash each other to bits, and issues the two hyperpowers have with individual CoT members are swept under the carpet while they can keep EDEN as the boogeyman.

Stolch
Stolch Dia 1,886, 18:18

Another problem, you assume things of Bulgaria which are untrue. If Bulgaria was interested in damage alone it would have never left EDEN and never founded an alliance with Switzerland and Chile (who at the time were all of 300-400 players).

The argument that the president needs to legitimize himself to the masses is as fallible as the premise that CoT needs to legitimize itself to the USA and to the world through the acceptance of the USA.

Your president was elected with a platform stating this course of action, she went through a primary and won there too. There is a clear and precise legitimation there. The question weather people ill choose partisan politics over the international reputation of the country as well as migrants choose allegiance to their homeland over their adoptive land is a entirely different proposition.

The test here is not on CoT and it is not on Bulgaria, the test is on USA to see heather it can be a team player again, weather it can reintegrate itself into transnational structures which an alliance is or it will continue with it's head in the sand internal ajay bruno soap opera to no end.

Actually the only reason he has any political power is that USA has no choosen a clear path and so he has free choice into recruiting all sort of opportunists from all countries to help him with his delusional ambitions.

Stolch
Stolch Dia 1,886, 18:25

@arrlo

EDEN countries have declared NE on TWO countries maybe half a dozen times over the last 1.5 years, not counting small countries like Portugal which get deleted over and over again.

On the other hand they have declared NE to CoT countries probably over 60-70 times in that period. Argentina was trying to permanently occupy 4 CoT member countries in South America for a long time. Taiwan has occupied and tried to keep perma occupied for over a year two other members of the alliance.

Romania and Croatia attempted to perma occupy Indonesia and in Europe the only countries Greece and Turkey have declared war to are Bulgaria and occasionally Macedonia.

For the last 1.5 years there is the nonstop rhetoric against TWO, however EDEN only fights against TWO when attacked and always attacks CoT, which in-turn defends itself.

Simply put the only defensive alliance right now is CoT, which has gone on the offensive against EDEN to perserve it's ability to wage war.

ObIiterate
ObIiterate Dia 1,886, 18:32

The world will never be tri-polar because no single alliance will ever take on another without the interference of the third. EDEN attacks CoT, TWO defends CoT, EDEN loses. CoT attacks TWO, EDEN supports CoT, TWO loses. It looks tri-polar but it snaps back into the bipolar model as soon as the first NE is declared.

@eRichard Parker: I read your article and found it interesting. Thanks for it. But are you now suggesting that CoT would leave EDEN alone if these current wars are closed? Because I don't think so, and that is what I mean by "it takes two to tango".

Stolch
Stolch Dia 1,886, 18:45

@arrlo

After 1.5 years being assaulting someone and especially when CoT was small and vulnerable, you do tend to incite a motivation in them to fight you.

Still Chile offered a NAP to Argentina, something Argentina tough unreasonable (even for congres) not to offer but to accept for any of the smaller countries around it. They refused they prefer to keep on fighting, so the fighting will turn again at some point and we're back to the same place.

When was the last time EDEN made a real effort to take the fight to TWO, be honest and don't give as example a single RW in Dalmatia or a bunch of RWs started after Serbia or Poland attacked someone.

It's simple, the CoT is puppet to TWO propaganda is needed to keep other countries from fleeing EDEN side, but it is still not enough and more and more countries not only leave the alliance but also leave EDEN sphere, some are willing to even sign treaties with Poland and Serbia like France, Germany and Netherlands.

EDEN sacrifices it's small-countries to TWO so that it can occupy CoT small countries for resources, this is the grand strategy and this forces CoT to seek assistance from TWO which on their end are forced to grant, because otherwise after that EDEN will come to deny them their resources. In the end CoT is the battlefield and is the one growing.

USA has been absorbed for way too long into it's own internal affairs that it has lost connection with the rest and still is looking upon other countries through some prism of years past. Why has Turkey never been criticized for attacking allies and pro EDEN countries just for resources, or Greece for it's bonus colonies or Argentina for it's empire.

There is this total and non stop propaganda for years now against Serbia and Poland but others who have done the same remain little angels......

ObIiterate
ObIiterate Dia 1,886, 18:54

So we can agree that for the reasons you gave about our antagonistic history, CoT is not interested in coming to any understanding with EDEN, which makes all this utterly pointless. I think bipolar world it will be, until the faultlines between CoT and TWO finally erupt, and then it will briefly be uncertain, before shifting to a different alignment.

Severrus Snape
Severrus Snape Dia 1,886, 18:59

The world will never be tri-polar because no single alliance will ever take on another without the interference of the third. +1

Stolch
Stolch Dia 1,886, 19:16

What I know is that the world will never be bipolar again, it is not bipolar even now. There are many complex relations that get juggled and will continue to be juggled.

This will only continue in the future.

As for Cot and EDEN, well Argentina will loose it's imperial delusions at some point just as all other EDEN countries have over time and so the war will become more normal just as it has between Romania and Hungary. Then the relations will change somewhat.

As for the rest, there is really no way to know what CoT will do in a situation where it isn't under assault as it has never been in such a situation, so we can only wait and see, it will arrise sooner or later, the alliance is not going away anytime soon. EDEN couldn't destroy it when it was young and fragile let alone now.

Candor
Candor Dia 1,886, 20:47

Good read.

Voted as many times as they'd let me :-0

Tiamati
Tiamati Dia 1,886, 21:26

Excellent piece NFM; I appreciate your thoughts regarding the current administration's implementation of CoT here in the eUSA.

One point though regarding eUSA population I believe the official numbers are exaggerated... The way I've always thought of a more realistic number is taking the average of the last three presidential election total votes column then reducing it by 10% for bots/multis/whatnot.

This would leave roughly 2000 at best; and of the 550 or so in MU's that receive funding probably less than half receive true benefit so only the top 10% of the tanks seem funded (roughly 200 of the 2000 by my estimates.

Sozo
Sozo Dia 1,886, 21:49

Govt funded MU's are not the only fighters in the eUS.

Jack Lantos
Jack Lantos Dia 1,886, 22:08

this article was a great read, thanks

 
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Este é um artigo escrito por um cidadão do eRepublik, um imersivo jogo de estratégia baseado nos países do mundo real. Crie um personagem e ajude seu país rumo à glória. Torne-se um herói de guerra, um editor renomado ou um guru das finanças.