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[POTUS] Aussie Load Dump

Dia 1,904, 05:52 por fingerguns

So, I wrote this a few days ago but was waiting for one of my advisers to tell me not to post it. They never did, so...here it is.


I add narrative. It's what I do. Deal with it.

This is just an info dump. Sorry for the lack of pics.

The NAP between Australia and Chile was signed at the very end of the last term.

A day or two after the start of the new term, I got a message from Australian CP, Xavier Griffith saying they were trying to negotiate region deals with Indonesia. I asked them why. They simply said 'because they are our neighbors.'

A couple days later (5-ish days into the term) Australia published this.

tl;dr- "Indonesia is single handedly undermining Australia's entry into CoT and our relationship with Chile for short-term personal gain. Is this really how you build a circle of trust? Slow down, take in the sun, and build a proper relationship."

The comments are fascinating. What they indicate to me are two things-
1. Australian congress is probably the most entertaining thing in eRepublik
2. It was believed by some that a couple Indonesian leaders may not have been on same page as the rest of their country.

Now, if #2 is true, then one would think knee jerk reactions and immediate accusations against an entire alliance might be a bad move before diplomacy had actually been exhausted (or even taken place). This is less than a week into the term (which is less than 2 weeks after the deal was signed).

There was an accusation straight out of the gate in the comments that Binda was trying to use Indonesia to wrestle more regions away from Chile. That accusation is likely based on this.

The same day that article was published, Binda sought out someone in the eUS State Dept.

[09:22:49] <%binda33> anyone from DoD here please?
[09:28:38] * You are now known as n0s3y|afk
[09:28:57] <n0s3y|afk> sup binda33
[09:29:11] <%binda33> hey
[09:29:14] <n0s3y|afk> hey
[09:29:17] <%binda33> Indo are going to attack Aus :(
[09:29:49] <n0s3y|afk> D:
[09:29:52] <%binda33> yeah
[09:29:53] <n0s3y|afk> what makes you think so?
[09:30:09] <%binda33> indo want Western Australia. one of only 2 regions we have right now
[09:30:25] <%binda33> we asked them to wait till we had more regions back from Chile as per our Treaty
[09:30:32] <%binda33> but Indo said they will just take it
[09:31:09] <n0s3y|afk> ugh
[09:31:19] <%binda33> yeah :/
[09:31:46] <%binda33> we asked them to wait and be patient but they sadi no
[09:31:49] <%binda33> said*
[09:32:45] <n0s3y|afk> I see. I'll get in touch with fingerguns and our SoS about this.
[09:33:11] <n0s3y|afk> I don't think that anybody will be okay with it as even CoT as an alliance has signed the treaty between Australia and Chile.
[09:33:50] <%binda33> thanks
[09:34:02] <n0s3y|afk> thanks for the information, I'll get in touch with fg and the SoS asap
[09:34:10] <%binda33> Aus is joining CoT and doing all the right things. Indo are just big bullies :/
[09:34:16] <%binda33> thanks mate
[09:34:25] <n0s3y|afk> :/

Australia at this point, a week into the term, is banging the war drums. Multiple messages were sent out claiming Indonesia was on the verge of invading, making accusations against Chile and CoT for not doing anything to stop it. They had already decided the contract will be breached and the eUS will fight for them 5 days into the term. News to us. Sure, she asked them to wait...but she also asked them to help negotiate more regions away from Chile.

We gave them the benefit of the doubt because we know how Indonesia can be...but we also know how Australia can be, so we did fact-checking of our own. My staff sent me this convo and I spoke with CoT leadership. As far as I could tell, CoT leadership was meeting with Chile and Indo to try and resolve this issue, but first they had to sort through what is actually happening. No easy task. There were different stories coming out of Indo and none of them seemed to match up with the various stories and accusations coming from Australia. Example: Indonesia told me their interest in Australia had nothing to do with resources in the first place. They simply wanted to pass through.

*sigh*

Migraine coming on.

I left them to it, but strongly suggested to both Indo and Australia that they have a 3rd party involved in their talks going forward so there is no more room for confusion. I'm not sure either ever did.

Background: The threat of war with the eUS was my idea while I was still working in the State Department last term. There were some understandable trust issues on both sides between Chile and Australia. Throughout the negotiations, Australia was constantly pushing for more and wouldn't stop running their mouths, even though they really didn't have a leg to stand on. I don't understand the mentality that leads someone to tell their occupiers who are offering them their freedom for literally nothing in return to 'stop treating them like bugs and show some respect!' Constantly. Every time a little headway was gained in negotiations, Australia started swinging their dongs around. I couldn't help but be impressed by the patience of the Chilean government. I can guess how the eUS would respond if a country we occupied, didn't trust or like, started running their mouths to us while we try to do them a favor. It wouldn’t have been so kind.

The threat of war was a last ditch effort to see if we could get the thing signed. It worked, but I did realize that we would probably end up at war with Australia. Their CP at the time made it abundantly clear that their Congress did not favor this deal, but he stuck his neck out to make it happen anyway because he was starting to see it was their best/only option. It was looking less and less likely that a new Aussie administration would even want to make good on their deal, but I was hopeful.

Just so it's understood, their move toward any kind of membership into CoT would be a ways down the road for Australia. Even for the eUS (who has something to offer), it took months just to get to the trial stage. Any talk that XG was going to push for full membership into CoT this term is silliness because the offer isn't even on the table. Never was. This NAP would have to be seen through first...regions returned to Australia without major incident and evidence of a willingness to work together. You know, prove they can be allies. Like I said, it was a long shot.

It was unfortunate that Indonesia had suddenly entered the picture, but according to this Venezuelan interview with Aussie CP, XG, Indonesia are no longer really aggressors. They are allies! Everything is hunky dory with Indonesia and they’re totally not “single handedly undermining Australia's entry into CoT and our relationship with Chile for short-term personal gain.”

Do what now?

Also in that interview, he says he strongly favors CoT. But shortly after things hit the fan (a couple days ago), other Aussies let it slip that XG never actually believed they would be accepted in CoT in the first place, so they were trying to manipulate the situation to create more options. Yeah... it’s gossip, and it confirmed my existing bias so I’m giving it weight. But, it’s their impression of what’s happening. As a fellow CP, I know people can and will get it wrong, however I continue to be dazzled by the Aussies who openly admit they think XG handled all of this poorly and totally disagree with all he has done but still defend him tooth and nail in article comments and help him burn bridges. That’s politics, I guess.

Another migraine coming on.

So where does this actually leave things? Like in a practical way?

According to XG,

" 3. Continue to work with Chile and find a trusting solution to any issues we may still have and should a Treaty be approved prior to the CP election, I commit to ensure that all parts of the agreement are kept. –ACHIEVED The Treaty was resigned and Australia kept to the Treaty as it was, we did not break it once while Chile broke it 3 times, which we allowed it to slide due to relations between our nation"

Oh, well I guess there isn't a problem at all then. Australia was kind enough to let it slide. lol

The bit that I find strange, though, is that Australia claims there was an unwillingness to negotiate, however based on the logs that XG himself posted, it seems very clear to me that Australia were the ones who were unwilling to negotiate. The 'full context' of the conversations I threw in little clips of, as well as the convos they offered up, make it pretty clear to me that they were playing every angle EXCEPT the angle of someone who was serious about making the NAP work and heading down the path of an alliance with CoT.

I don't think Australia is completely out of options here. They aren't totally screwed. The question is, will they do what needs to be done to get back on track and restore the broken agreement with CoT? Or will they let it burn and take their chances and try to join TWO (which, by the way, is not the same thing as signing a defensive MPP with a single nation, you derps)? Or will they be wiped again and just stay that way because their inner turmoil makes them such a hassle to try and work with?

Based on some of their comments, it seems some hold out the hope that there is still room to negotiate and try to mend things. Based on some of their other comments (from the current Administration), it seems they have readied their torches to make sure no bridge is left unburned.

They need to make this decision rather quickly. If their hope is to try and mend things with CoT, I believe the eUS is still willing to try and help them help themselves...again. We would really love some sort of indication that Australia actually wants this, though. I've seen nothing this term on behalf of the current Australian administration that would lead any reasonable person to believe they are interested in this. Lip service, sure. But it is just that.

As trial members in CoT, the eUS will support our new allies. But I do not think we will close the door on Australia entirely until we know for certain that's what they want (the majority of them).
 

Comentários

fingerguns
fingerguns Dia 1,904, 05:52

Blerg.

Nicky3Fingers
Nicky3Fingers Dia 1,904, 08:04

good article....as for the screenshot with Binda perhaps there was a better way to go about it but i wouldn't consider it "wrestling" regions from Chile ...was it dumb to say? yes but it wasn't THAT dumb hahaha hopefully with the next CP election we will have some different people in MoFA *cough* not Binda *cough*

fingerguns
fingerguns Dia 1,904, 08:11

lol well it definitely wasn't my intention to blast certain individuals, so I tried to be selective with what I put here. More informative than slandering. That's my goal, anyway. Thanks for reading.

LanyIsLost
LanyIsLost Dia 1,904, 08:17

fingerguns, Louise Brooks and Daenerys Stormborn Targaryen (Larni) keep saying that you fired TJ Norton from your cabinet and he had to come back to eAus with his tail between his legs. Could you please clear up that mystery because he says the opposite is true.

fingerguns
fingerguns Dia 1,904, 08:22

TJ resigned. He wasn't fired.

LanyIsLost
LanyIsLost Dia 1,904, 08:38

Thank you. : )

Bucephalus92
Bucephalus92 Dia 1,904, 09:04

Oh Australia, also known as the land of nope

http://i.imgur.com/qGQ8B.jpg

alimilano
alimilano Dia 1,904, 10:55

Main reason why Australia go proCoT and considering joining CoT with Mac Gregor gvt (and made mistake) is USA. Month before under Ranger BoB gvt nobody even mention CoT or proCoT stance, but when they see USA changing side they follow it. It's only true.

Vyrin the First
Vyrin the First Dia 1,904, 12:30

Lany - so naive as usual - what does resigning prove? People who are going to be fired are often asked to resign so they save face. And resigning certainly doesn't mean there weren't troubles. You're question and fingerguns answer solve nothing, sorry.

Anyway, besides the mass confusion of this article fingerguns, which solves nothing btw except showing a rambling cobbled-together highly suspect perspective, you don't respond to the fact that there really are only 3 options for the treaty the US signed:

1) It is still in force
2) Chile violated therefore you are at war with them
3) Australia violated, therefore you are at war with them

Since none of these three is true right now, you did not follow a treaty to which you were a party. That's completely disingenuous and shows how untrustworthy you are - because you violated the only 3 options the treaty allowed to go a different way.

fingerguns
fingerguns Dia 1,904, 12:32

He wasn't asked to resign either.

Vyrin the First
Vyrin the First Dia 1,904, 12:45

My point was to say that Lany's question didn't answer what she thought it would. Nor does your second answer. I know it is more complex - and I've pretty much figured out what was going on behind-the-scenes.

Why not answer the more important point of my comment? The treaty only left 3 options. Simple logic. Is it ok for the eUS not to live up to its treaties? Even if what you say is entirely true - which it is only mere speculation - but even if it was you still have to accept the fact that you violated a treaty the US signed.

Mr Crumpets
Mr Crumpets Dia 1,904, 12:55

What Fingerguns failed to mention was the USA's "Allies" made THREE attempts to NE us after they demanded WA.

Australia "TRIED" to make friends with Indonesia after 5 years of tension and we proposed a 'land swap' but Indonesia kept stalling and kept hinting at invasion.

If you believe Indonesia was just "passing through" fingerguns, tell me, where were that passing through too?

Anyone, with any clue, can tell you that every few months of so Indonesia invade Australia under false reasons. They do it because they are BORED. We are the easy target, so when they need an ego boost, they attack us for a cheap morale boosting win.

It seems Fingerguns you haven't done your research. Maybe you'd be better in information that FA, where your spin tactics could be better put to use.

fingerguns
fingerguns Dia 1,904, 13:01

So I take it you guys are going with 'scorched earth'?

That'll work out.

Vyrin the First
Vyrin the First Dia 1,904, 13:05

Haha. Classic politician not answering questions. The US abandoned us already, what's there left to scorch?

BOUD1CCA
BOUD1CCA Dia 1,904, 13:06

For God's sake Mr Crumpets , stop.
Don't make her try to use her brain
- eek another migraine coming on.

I continue to hold my belief that Australia & the US have a lot in common , a strong relationship & that clowns like Fingerguns are just a passing phenomenon.

Depends who wins the CP election - it could be abject crawling, we can get fools as a CP as well

Daenerys Stormborn Targaryen
Daenerys Stormborn Targaryen Dia 1,904, 16:10

Did your master authorize this article FG? and even let you out of the kitchen to do it or did he just write it and have you post?

Molly Jo
Molly Jo Dia 1,904, 17:41

The desperate writings of someone trying to save her own butt.

Gordon Lightning
Gordon Lightning Dia 1,904, 19:06

Let's hope the new US CP can stop the spin and remember their friends, not just their most beneficial "allies".

Candor
Candor Dia 1,905, 02:02

FG, you have a whole lot of words to say.

That is all.

No wait. No that is all.

V.

fingerguns
fingerguns Dia 1,905, 06:07

*amused*

Hyuuz
Hyuuz Dia 1,906, 01:06

So glad I moved to Canada

 
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